CULTURAL BAGGAGE

FEBRUARY 12, 2016

TRANSCRIPT

JOHN LENNON: [MUSIC] All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
No short haired-yellow bellied son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap with me with just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope
Wooh hoo hoo!

DEAN BECKER: Thank you for joining us on this edition of Cultural Baggage. I'm your host, Dean Becker. Today, we're going to hear from Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Tony Newman of the Drug Policy Alliance, Will Godfrey,, the editor of a brand new online publication, The Influence. But first up: Give me some truth, from the New York Times.

Just a couple of days ago, I ran into an op-ed on the New York Times. It was titled "When Addiction Has A White Face." I'm proud to have the author of that op-ed with us today, Professor Ekow Yankah. Hello, sir.

EKOH YANKAH: Hi, how are you today?

DEAN BECKER: I'm well, sir. Now, this piece made quite a splash. It talks about when crack hit America in the 1980s, for African Americans, supposedly civilization fell. But we've changed our perspectives on that recently, have we not?

EKOH YANKAH: It seems so. I mean, it's clearly true that we've had now almost two generations of a very failed so-called war on drugs, and that has meant that America's had a real reckoning with how we're going to how we're doing to deal with those who are in the grips of addiction. It's also true, as I point out, that we've changed our view on this in part because the war on drugs is now a war on young rural, and sometimes suburban, white kids, and that seems to have changed whether or not we're willing to extend ourselves and our compassion to them.

DEAN BECKER: And, that's kind of the underlying thought, that this drug war was happily waged as long as it was, you know, young black and Hispanic kids in poor neighborhoods. But that has changed, right?

EKOH YANKAH: That's absolutely right. I mean, it's the case that now when one hears about the epicenters of the heroin or opiate epidemic, you hear about New Hampshire, is an easy example, given that the presidential primary meant that presidential candidates had to speak about this. Staten Island, you know, Maine, you hear endlessly about parts of America that, even if everyone knows drugs is not containable, these are places that never thought of themselves as part, as ground zero in the drug war. And thus, they were, you know, we were very happy to feel badly, but not do anything about a great deal of what was going wrong.

DEAN BECKER: Yes, sir. Now, you also mention in this op-ed that politicians of every stripe -- Democrat, Republican -- are starting to recognize this danger, if you will, to the white community, to their family, to their constituents and friends, and talking openly about that need for change, now that it's a quote "white problem."

EKOH YANKAH: Yeah, I mean, it's one of the most striking differences. I mean, you know, we don't have to be faceted about it, of course diversionary programs existed before this year, and of course some people have been decrying the failed war on drugs for a long time. So it's not a simple one-note problem. But, you would have to be purposefully in denial to not view the sea-change in the notes that politicians and police officers are now humming. I mean, if somebody wants to go back and find for me anywhere during the 80s or even 90s where major presidential candidates, and indeed Republican presidential candidates, were willing to speak about drug problems in their family, and about treating drugs as a public health problem first, you know, we just didn't see that.

DEAN BECKER: Well, you know, even in Texas, things are changing. We have taken a look at fixing our marijuana laws, and stop locking up so many people for so little amounts. They haven't really done a lot yet, but at least they're talking about it, and I think that's representative of what's going on around the country. Correct?

EKOH YANKAH: I think that's in part true, although if I'm honest, that doesn't change my disappointment. And let me be clear to your listeners. Nobody that I know, and certainly not me, advocates returning to a failed policy or continuing a failed policy out of some sense of misplaced revenge. It's not as though the view is, things were unjust and so they should be unjust for everybody. But, you know, the marijuana laws, to me, stand as the most glaring example of the injustice of the drug laws. What we know, for example, is that white, blacks, and Hispanics use marijuana at roughly the same rates, and notwithstanding that, blacks and Hispanics get arrested for marijuana in vastly higher quantities.

What I always say, you know, to my friends, and sometimes even to my classes, are, it's hard not to view marijuana as less of a question about how we want to stop drugs, and more of an excuse as to how we want to police a certain group of people. If we really cared about stopping marijuana, there'd be SWAT teams in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Madison, Wisconsin, Berkeley would be invaded. But of course we've never thought of anything like that because those young boys and girls have parents who would light up the phones. So, while, as I say, we're all glad to see a failed policy end, it certainly doesn't comfort to see the way the shifts often track the racial politics or the people we most, with the most political power.

DEAN BECKER: Well, Professor, you know, I'm a white guy. In my youth, I got busted 13 times, mostly for minor amounts of marijuana. And, you know, given the circumstance, right here in Texas, had I been black, probably I would have spent many years in prison, but the most I ever did was 30 days in the county lock-up. Because my parents had some money, and again, I guess, because I was white. Your response to that, sir.

EKOH YANKAH: Yeah, you know, one of the things that I have sort of taken heart in is, there was a sort of Twitter meme going around about committing crimes while white. And it was touching, in a way, not because it was sort of misplaced white guilt, but because it was thoughtful young people who wanted to say, look, let's not pretend things are equal. To speak bluntly, most black kids just know, from a very early stage, that, you know, again, white people and black people, you know, do smoke marijuana at roughly the same rates, by every statistic. But most black kids are just well aware that they will be given many fewer second chances. You know, if you're arrested, you get labeled as a bad kid, people think of you as a young thug, a criminal, etc. etc. If you're a white kid, as you're pointing out, you know, you're just thought of as a young person sort of engaged in harmless behavior, or, you know, experimenting or feeling his wild oats -- all of the things we say about the kids at Berkeley, or Ann Arbor, etc.

And that's just not true for young black and young Hispanic kids, they're just well aware that, for them, it's many fewer strikes and you're out.

DEAN BECKER: Professor Yankah, I have interviewed well over a thousand people. I find the scale is tipping, that more and more people are willing to come on my show, you know, not necessarily, you know, Congressmen or Senators, but more and more people with the official power are starting to open the door, starting to speak a little more openly about that need for change. What is causing that tipping point, is it just the education, the science, the truth, coming forward? What's making that change happen?

EKOH YANKAH: I do -- I think there are a few different issues. I think one important note is just that it has been a long and failed attempt to treat drugs as first and foremost a criminal law problem. I think even those who may be not by nature progressive on one view or another, if you're given long enough and you see years and years of failure, it's enough. It's enough, I think. I had a recent conversation with a retired judge in Florida, and he mentioned that he was one of the first people to start a diversionary program, and one of the things that he's very honest about was that his diversionary programs gained steam when more and more young white kids were seen as suddenly involved in quaaludes and in marijuana. So I think we'd be purposely naive to ignore that there is a racial dimension to the fact that people are now willing, not just to have some diversionary programs, not just to change some things, but to restructure our entire views on how we attack drugs as a problem in America.

DEAN BECKER: Since you published this op-ed, what has been the response, have you received much response?

EKOH YANKAH: I have received a lot of response. Some of it has been encouraging, I certainly had a chance to talk, as I said, former judges, former police officers, former community leaders, people who speak about how, at the time, there was an us versus them mentality, and nobody thought of addicts as people with a purpose, or people whose lives needed to be rescued. And so it's been gratifying to talk to people who are willing to recognize how badly wrong things went. But you do, you know, you do occasionally get people who are determined to ignore it, and the examples, who, despite how big a difference there has been in these two responses, just say, oh, it's a coincidence, or I don't think race has anything to do with it. And, you know, in America, there are always those who want to accuse you of only being in interested this as a race-monger, as somebody who's in it for their own good, as though, you know, as though I get paychecks for every moment of racial heartbreak or something.

DEAN BECKER: Well, sir, we're going to have to wrap it up here soon, but I don't know if you want to touch on this, but as we indicated earlier, we're starting to hear from politicians, even at the presidential candidate level, talking about that need for change. What's your take on the candidates, I'm not asking you to pick a favorite, but what are they telling you, sir?

EKOH YANKAH: I do think enough Americans are now understanding that, whatever else is true, we're not going to police our way out of a drug problem. And that is certainly a meaningful change, that's certainly an important change, and I'm glad that some politicians are finally being brave enough to say so. I think, for the most part, they're being left no choice, and when their constituents show them the heartbreak, you know, as person after person has said, you know, every day, every few hours, somebody's dying of these opiate addictions. They have no choice but to respond. My hope is that next time we won't wait until we have no choice to do what are obviously the moral thing.

DEAN BECKER: Very good. All right. Professor, I do appreciate your time. I look forward to your next writing, and I appreciate you being with us here on Cultural Baggage.

EKOH YANKAH: Thank you so much for having me on.

DEAN BECKER: It's time to play Name That Drug By Its Side Effect! Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, cirrhosis, psychosis, and dementia. The number one contributor to domestic violence and deaths on American highways. Time's up! The answer: beer. Taxed, regulated, and freely available in all non-Muslim countries.

Next up, a quick debate between the two leading presidential candidates.

DONALD TRUMP: New Hampshire has a tremendous drug epidemic. Every time I go there, people come up to me and they say, Mister Trump, what are we going to do? Drugs are pouring in. I'm going to create borders. No drugs are coming in. We're going to build a wall. You know what I'm talking about. You have confidence in me. Believe me. I will solve the problem.

DEAN BECKER: The following segment is Bernie Sanders, speaking just a couple of days ago in New Hampshire.

BERNIE SANDERS: And when we talk about transforming America, it means ending the disgrace of this country having more people in jail than any other country in the world, disproportionately African American and Latino. Not only are we going to fight to end institutional racism in a broken criminal justice system, we are going to provide jobs and education for our young people, not jails and incarceration.

DEAN BECKER: Politicians, officials all over the country are starting to reexamine our policy, change our laws a bit here and there. Here to talk about it, from the Drug Policy Alliance, we have Mister Tony Newman. Hello, sir.

TONY NEWMAN: Hey Dean, thanks for having me on.

DEAN BECKER: Hey, Tony, there's a lot to keep up with. I was wondering if you could kind of give us the tally, the to and fro on this. What's going on around the country?

TONY NEWMAN: Well, thanks, Dean, as you said, there is so much momentum right now, so many people acknowledging that our war on drugs is a total disastrous failure, it has ruined the lives of millions and millions of people. We have more people incarcerated in this country, thanks to the war on drugs, than any other country in the world. Our war on drugs targets African Americans and Latinos, and that's despite similar drug use with whites. They get arrested five, tens times as many times. We're wasting millions and billions of dollars in this failed war on drugs, and it's a disaster, and people are waking up.

The good news is, there's change. You know, we have four states -- Colorado, Washington, Alaska, and Oregon, that have all legalized marijuana. Washington DC passed a similar initiative. And the good news is that in 2016, we're going to past the tipping point. California is the big one, California is going to legalizing marijuana, knock on wood, in November, and five other states are also doing it. The majority of Americans, 58 percent, support legalizing marijuana, and you know, we know it's a total disaster arresting 750,000 people for marijuana possession every year, and you know, people are leading and the leaders will follow. And the marijuana's just one piece, I can go on and hit other ones as well.

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, Tony, I'm aware that, mostly in the New England area, there's a lot of progress, portended progress, but there's also some reluctance and falling back, perhaps. What's going on in that New England area?

TONY NEWMAN: Well, with, I mean, the big issue in, not only in New England but actually nationwide right now, we have an opioid crisis, we have an overdose crisis, we have more people dying from overdoses than from car accidents. It is totally tragic, it's, you know, there are so many people, we have commercials popping prescription drugs at us all the time, and the prescription drug issue has also led into heroin use, and we have an overdose crisis, that's the terrible news. The reason for hope is that elected officials and many states are now starting to adopt harm reduction policies, things that we've been pushing for years. We're passing laws where people can call 911 when witnessing an overdose without fear of arrest, we're passing laws where people can get naloxone, which reverses an overdose, at pharmacies.

So the good news is harm reduction is becoming totally mainstream and doing it. The bad news is, we have these tragic deaths that are happening. And it is also worth pointing out that, you know, there's all this coverage about a new kind of compassion for people who are using drugs, and the new, you know, the new white face of people who are using, and they are the face of addiction right now, and there seems to be all this sympathy, and it is being pointed out, well we need that same kind of compassion for the decades that we've been locking up African Americans for drug use, we want, you know, we want compassion for all the brothers and sisters in this country. So, while it's, you know, we appreciate that it seems like people are having a more compassionate view, it should have been like that decades ago, and we need that for everybody.

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, and it appears that on the campaign trail, Democrat or Republican, they're at least broaching the subject of need for change to our criminal justice system, to the way we've done it in the past.

TONY NEWMAN: Yeah, you know, it's good to see. I mean, it's almost bipartisan agreement that we have way too many people incarcerated, we're, you know, incarceration nation, and that is something to be ashamed of, for too long, you know, starting with, you know, President Nixon but all the way through President Clinton, and all the way through, we had this, you know, tough on crime thing, and it's filled up prisons and people are finally, either for moral reasons or financial reasons, saying we cannot go on like this. The good news is, look, the marijuana thing is happening, there's acknowledgement that mass incarceration is wrong. We need to start pushing the envelope, and we need all drug decriminalization, not only for marijuana. No one should be locked in a cage for small amounts of drugs, whether it's heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, or anything.

And, you know, people say, well how will it happen if we ever did that? There's a country, Portugal, who did it 15 years ago and it's been an incredible success. They decriminalized all drugs. Unfortunately, Americans don't know about it, but that's about to change. Michael Moore, the Oscar-winning filmmaker, has a new film coming out in theaters on Friday, and it's called Where To Invade Next. And it's about ideas that other countries are doing that America should bring back to the US, and one of the six topics is all about Portugal, and all the success they've had with decriminalizing all drugs. So America's about to have their eyes opened up to another way is possible.

And you know, there's also, you know, talk in this country, there was an incredible press conference last week, Maryland Delegate Dan Morhaim, who's a doctor, emergency room doctor for 30 years, and also a legislator, introduced groundbreaking legislation including all drug decriminalization. He also, you know, treatment on demand, anyone could go into a hospital and get treatment. He also talked about things that are practiced around the world, like supervised injection facilities, which allow people to use their drugs with a doctor or nurse around, without fear of arrest, but it completely reduces overdose death, completely reduced HIV, you know, while they use drugs. It gets people off the streets into a safe place. These things are common sense, and 68 cities around the world have supervised injection facilities, and now legislators in Maryland, in New York, in California, are starting to talk about it here. I mean, it is embarrassing that the rest of the world does these common sense things that help save people's lives, and Americans don't even know about it, less, you know, much less actually pass these laws. But that all is about to change.

DEAN BECKER: Well, I don't know what to say except thank you. Friends, we've been speaking with Mister Tony Newman with the Drug Policy Alliance. If you want to educate yourself, if you want to better understand what he's talking about, please visit their website, which is DrugPolicy.org.

[MUSIC] Dream the American dream,
To lie still and hope
With both of your eyes closed.
To ignore the nightmare that surrounds you,
Just to try, try to reach the American dream.

You know, almost 15 years ago I began reporting drug war news over the airwaves of Pacifica and the Drug Truth Network. Over the following years there have been a lot of folks that have spoken about marijuana reform, radio shows, even a few TV shows, and a lot of online stuff, mostly about marijuana, but we have a brand new website, The Influence, which speaks broadly, very much about the overall drug war and its impact, and we have with us today Mister Will Godfrey, editor of The Influence. Hello, sir.

WILL GODFREY: Hi Dean. Thanks very much for having me.

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, Will, tell us about this new project, why have you brought this forward?

WILL GODFREY: Well, TheInfluence.org is a website that covers the full spectrum of human relationships with drugs. So we're talking about all different drugs, we're talking about the relationships that people have with substances, ranging from addiction, ranging from abstinence, to casual use and all of the gray areas in between. I think that very often that the gray areas and the more ambiguous relationships that people have with drugs are omitted from the conversation that we seem to see this sort of dichotomy of good and bad, and sort of brushing aside some of those prejudices that we carry about drugs is part of the site's mission.

DEAN BECKER: Well, this increased focus, this wider examination of this drug war, is really not limited to online, it's not limited to activism itself, it's beginning to show its ugly head in our legislatures and other officialdom, is it not?

WILL GODFREY: Well, I think so, but I mean, despite all the great frustrations and the great obstacles in our path, I think we're at a moment where we're seeing more rapid progress than ever before. I feel very privileged to be covering this progress. We're seeing not only rapid progress when it comes to cannabis laws, but we're seeing more and more flexibility when it comes to addressing other kinds of drugs, even the drugs that are, you know, greatly demonized, that people are starting to realize and even politicians in some cases starting to realize that a lock 'em up harsh approach is disastrous in so many ways, and are thinking about better harm reduction oriented solutions, decriminalization-focused solutions, and I find it extremely promising despite the enormous injustices that we still see in the world.

DEAN BECKER: And Will, I want to talk about, I'm looking at your headline here. Rehab Industry Needs To Clean Up Its Act, Here's How. Let's talk about that story, because it's a very pertinent issue as well, isn't it?

WILL GODFREY: Yes. This is a piece written by Maia Szalavitz, who's one of our columnists at TheInfluence.org, and she sets out a manifesto if you like of proposals to improve the rehab industry. There's no doubt that some people experience very severe problems with drugs, and we aren't trying to minimize that in any way, but I think that even the biggest proponents of the addiction treatment industry would admit that there are many things wrong with that industry. That, for example, there aren't independent and rigorous accreditation bodies, so it's insufficiently regulated. They're too much of a sort of one size fits all approach, rather than focusing on different things that clients may need. There's still unfortunately opposition within that field to harm reduction, for example, to name one practice. I mean, so mean facilities fail to provide naloxone to clients who are departing, clients who've been using opioids. That's really a no-brainer, and we're going to be running a piece specifically about that on TheInfluence.org next week.

DEAN BECKER: Well, you know, the fact is, I've had Maia on my show several times. She's exemplary of the caliber of writers and reporters you have. I see another story here from Doctor Carl Hart, talking about meth is virtually identical to Adderal. It's just an example of the truth finally rising to the surface these days, isn't it?

WILL GODFREY: I completely agree, Dean. I think that one of the things I get very frustrated with is the creation of supposed hierarchies of drugs, you know, that the people who use certain drugs look down on people who use other drugs, and you know, people who drink coffee for example might look down on people who drink alcohol, and people who drink alcohol might look down on people who use marijuana, and even in some cases, marijuana or psychedelic users might look down on people who use other drugs, and it's all absolutely absurd, and one of the reasons I admire Carl Hart is the way that he punctures some of these myths, and persuades us to leave our prejudices aside and think rationally about these subjects. It's something we desperately need to do. I'm very proud of the caliber of writers we've got on TheInfluence.org, people like Carl Hart and Maia Szalavitz, and Stanton Peele, and Johann Hari with a piece today. I see my role as editor to be principally about finding people who are more interesting and knowledgeable than I am, and giving them a platform to share this fantastic information and perspective.

DEAN BECKER: I urge folks to please educate themselves. The truth is waiting on you to put it to good use in this election season, and in your community. We've been speaking with Mister Will Godfrey, and his website is indeed TheInfluence.org.

Folks, it's time for me to 'fess up. I'm addicted. I'm addicted to educating and emboldening you. Here's hoping that I've done a good job today, and that you'll soon pick up the mantle and the protest sign and do your part to end the madness of this eternal war on plants and plant products. As always, I remind you, because of prohibition you don't know what's in that bag. Please be careful.

Many thanks to John Lennon.

JOHN LENNON: [MUSIC] All I want is the truth now,
Just gimme some truth now,
All I want is the truth now,
Just gimme some truth now,
All I want is the truth,
Just gimme some truth,

DEAN BECKER: Please visit our website, DrugTruth.net.