Transcript

Century of Lies / July 1, 2012

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DEAN BECKER: The failure of Drug War is glaringly obvious to judges, cops, wardens, prosecutors and millions more. Now calling for decriminalization, legalization, the end of prohibition. Let us investigate the Century of Lies.

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DEAN BECKER: This is Dean Becker. Thank you for joining us on this edition of Century of Lies. Here in just a minute we’ll bring in our guest Tony Newman of the Drug Policy Alliance but first I want to remind you that it was the great Muhat Mughandi who adviced that in a great battle for change that “First they will ignore you. Then they will laugh at you. Then they will fight you and then you win.”

Now in the great battle over drug reform the prohibitionists did ignore us, did laugh at us, did fight or debate us for a short while - until we kicked their ass every time – but we’re now on the flip side of the equation and because the prohibitionists are so frightened of debate it is now time, after decades of hysterical horse shift.

So, here to talk about “Five Hilarious Skits That Slam the Insane Drug War (the title of his most recent Huffington Post) is the Director of Media Relations for the Drug Policy Alliance, Mr. Tony Newman.

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DEAN BECKER: Tony, that piece you had in the Huffington Post really kind of tweaked a nerve with me. It is now time for us to laugh at their hysterical horse shift isn’t it?

TONY NEWMAN: You know comedy is very, very powerful and while the War on Drugs is not a laughing matter and it’s very, very serious I found that comedians a lot of times are able to point out things, say things that other people in our society are unable to say.

You know it’s funny that so much of our news that people watch now is from the Colbert Show, Jon Stewart and the Daily News and a lot of times they can capture an issue and you leave more informed, more educated than watching the nightly news. Comedy is something that gets people to address issues that sometimes are too hard to discuss and they’re not afraid to say things that other people are.

The five pieces that I highlighted in this piece…It’s called “Five Hilarious Skits That Slam the Insane Drug War.” Each one of them will have you laughing but you also take away very powerful messages.

DEAN BECKER: The message…you know, what I was trying to underscore there is that there is no other side standing forth willing to debate these issues. They’re frightened of discourse. Are they not?

TONY NEWMAN: You know whenever there is a debate we win. When you try to defend the War on Drugs it’s almost impossible task. You look at the 50,000+ deaths in Mexico alone over the last 5 years, you look at the 500,000 people incarcerated in the United States on drug possession charges, the tens of billions of dollars we spend every year to try to eradicate drugs and drugs are as available as ever before so it’s so hard – you can see why they’re afraid and terrified of having to debate on the merits of the War on Drugs.

But, if you also think about it…I mean if there is anything that’s humorous and totally ridiculous is that some of the things that come from the U.N. and the Drug Czar of the United States. The U.N. makes declarations, “We want a drug free world by the year 2008.” They literally put that in their mission statement and imagine 40 years after we launched the War on Drugs…you know 5 years after they claim they’re going to have a drug free world drugs are as available and as plentiful as ever before. Totally, ridiculously a joke.

DEAN BECKER: Indeed it is. What was it? 2 weeks ago the head of the DEA, Michelle Leonhart, was before congress Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security . The questioner is Congressman Cohen.

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STEVE COHEN: Right and marijuana is fourth. Would you agree that marijuana causes less harm to individuals than meth, crack, cocaine and heroin?

MICHELLE LEONHART: As a former police officer, as a 32 year DEA agent I can tell you that I think marijuana is an incideous drug.

STEVE COHEN: That’s not the question I asked you, ma’am. Does it cause less damage to the American society and to individuals than meth, crack, cocaine and heroin? Does it make people have to kill to get their fix?

MICHELLE LEONHART: I can tell you that more teens enter treatment for…

STEVE COHEN: Can you answer my question? Answer my question, please.

MICHELLE LEONHART: I’m trying to. It causes harm because it’s young people that are using it. If you’re talking about…

STEVE COHEN: It’s not just young people but you’re trying to answer the question like I’m Jeff Sessions. I’m not Senator Sessions.

[snip]

MICHELLE LEONHART: ... I don’t have a breakdown for you of how many deaths are caused by cocaine and how many…

STEVE COHEN: Let me ask you this. Have you ever seen a person who had cancer and used marijuana to help them eat or to aleve their condition of…somebody that’s suffering from terminal cancer?

MICHELLE LEONHART: No I have not.

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DEAN BECKER: They basically humiliated her. Did they not?

TONY NEWMAN: Yeah. They were trying to get her to admit that marijuana is less harmful than heroin and cocaine and she would refuse to answer that question. She continued to hammer away, “All drugs are bad. All drugs are harmful.” And this and that and when you see them unable to make a statement that is so clear to anyone who is paying attention it makes them look ridiculous.

DEAN BECKER: You know I like to throw in my favorite fifty words once in a while and that goes something like:

In lieu of the horrible consequences of the drug war which include empowering our terrorist enemies, enriching the barbarous Latin cartels, giving reason for more than 30,000 violent gangs to prowl our neighborhoods selling contaminated drugs to our children – what the hell is the benefit?

And there isn’t anybody that’s ever going to answer that is there?

TONY NEWMAN: You know it’s a very powerful statement and when you think of all the different harms that are happening all across the boards with so little to show for it it’s hard thing…but not everyone is going to want to read a report about the failures of the drug war. Not everyone is going to want to listen to a talk on this issue and that’s why humor and comedians are so powerful. They are able to make some of these points that would take a 200 page report and they can say it in a 3 minute skit and have you laughing and open your mind and it’s something that could stay with you forever.

DEAN BECKER: Alright, Tony, I was getting a bit too serious. This is supposed to be about humor. I’ll tell you what, let’s play a little clip here from the now deceased but never forgotten Bill Hicks.

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BILL HICKS: So I don’t drink. I don’t do drugs...anymore. I used to take drugs and I quit but I’ll tell you something – I have nothing against drugs whatsoever. That’s kind of weird, huh?!

You never heard that one, “Used to take drugs. Quit and have nothing against them.”

Wow, never heard that. Let’s hear more.

OK

[laughter]

I’ll tell you something else. I know this is not a very popular idea. You don’t hear it very often anymore …but it’s the truth.

I have taken drugs before and …I had a real good time.

[laughter…applause]

Sorry.

Didn’t murder anybody. Didn’t rob anybody. Didn’t rape anybody. Didn’t beat anybody. Didn’t lose…mmmmm….one [explicative deleted] job.

Laughed my ass off and went about my day.

[laughter…applause]

Sorry

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DEAN BECKER: Alright, Tony, he makes a very strong point there. Even the last three presidents have been drug users and went on to do great things. Your response, sir.

TONY NEWMAN: I love that Bill Hicks clip. So much of the propaganda about drugs, “if you use drugs you’re going to have your life ruined.”

Think about the commercials you see on TV, “This is your brain on drugs.” …”If you smoke a joint you’re going to be a heroin addict before you know it.”

Bill Hicks reminds us that the vast majority of people are able to use drugs whether it’s alcohol, marijuana, even cocaine and have an OK relationship with it and not lose jobs, not hurt other people, not commit crimes. It’s a very powerful point.

For a whole range of people you can have positive, good experiences with drugs without having these terrible, devastating consequences. His clip says it very powerfully.

DEAN BECKER: Yeah and I think that’s a point that’s often overlooked even by drug reformers is to make mention of the fact that over the lifetime of the drug war drugs have been used literally trillions of times and the amount of harm done I admit needs to be decreased but as a proportion of the overall usage, if you will, it’s still not that bad.

TONY NEWMAN: Your point is a very important one. Many people who have a positive relationship or a good relationship with drugs we don’t know about them. They are holding down jobs. They are contributing to society. They are good parents. They are high achievers in their field but we don’t see them because they’re afraid to share their stories.

Bill Hicks can do it on a stage but if you’re someone that has a family and a job there’s going to be some consequences from admitting you’re a drug user so people don’t see that. What they see is the person that’s panhandling on the street or who’s arrested or in jail because he robbed somebody to get their drug habit.

So what happens is we have a view of people who use drugs as, “Oh, they’re the one’s with all the problems.” And the people who have a healthy or normal relationship with drugs are invisible because they’re afraid to share they’re story.

Bill Hicks is able to come out and admit that he’s someone who has used drugs and had a good time and did not experience these negative consequences that people associate with drug use.

DEAN BECKER: Exactly right.

Once again we’re speaking with Mr. Tony Newman. He’s the Director of Media Relations for the Drug Policy Alliance.

Tony, I’ll tell you what. I’m going to play another clip here. Again, from your Huffington Post post. It’s a little slice by Mr. Chris Rock.

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CHRIS ROCK: The government always says drugs are illegal because they’re bad for you. They’re going to try to protect society but the government don’t give a fuck about your safety. They sell guns at Walmart. They don’t give a fuck about you.

Nah, the government’s like this…the government, they don’t want you to use YOUR drugs – they want you to use THEIR drugs.

So every night on TV you see a weird ass drug commercial trying to get you hooked on some legal [expletive deleted] and then they just keep naming symptoms until they get one that you probably got. OK?!

It’s like, “Are you sad? Are you lonely? Do you got athletes’ foot? Are you hot? Are you cold? What’s you got? You want this pill. You got to take this pill.”

They don’t even tell you what the pill does. You see a lady on a horse or a man in a tub and they just keep naming symptoms. “Are you depressed? Are you lonely? Do your teeth hurt?”

I saw a commercial the other day that said, “Do you go to bed at night and wake up in the morning?”

[laughter]

I got that! I’m sick. I need that pill.

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DEAN BECKER: Tony, you know the fact of the matter is Chris Rock brings up a very important point. There are a lot of folks trying to sell us a lot of drugs, aren’t there?

TONY NEWMAN: I love that clip by Chris Rock and it’s true these commercials are ridiculous. “Do you ever feel sad, lonely, hot, cold…” They’ll rattle off…Anyone who watches this, of course, feels some of these things in life and here they are pushing drugs and, you know, if someone who uses marijuana to deal with anxiety or to deal with some of these issues is considered a person with a drug problem but here they are giving legal drugs for the exact same symptoms.

A lot of times these drugs are much more harmful as we know. There’s a huge overdoes crisis right now in this country from most people using prescription drugs and legal drugs. So we have no problem pushing and encouraging people to take drugs if you have this…take drugs…take drugs. Yet if someone wants to use some medicine that happens to be illegal from the street, like marijuana, they’re considered a criminal.

Drug-free world?! Yeah, right. We are swimming in drugs. People are using drugs all around us. Prozac, Viagra, Ritalin, coffee, cigarettes, alcohol – everyone is using drugs. Only certain people are considered criminals and getting arrested and going to jail for it.

DEAN BECKER: And you know truth is that the beginnings of this drug war – its being steeped in racial bigotry, the ways these laws are being implemented and enforced and who goes to jail for what is beginning to be recognized. It’s starting to swing things around. Is it not?

TONY NEWMAN: Like I said there’s also arresting 50,000 people in New York alone (mostly young, black and Latino) for carrying around marijuana. They get their drug on the street and are considered criminals. Other people get their doctor to write them a little prescription and they’re considered professionals and models of society. There’s total hypocrisy in how our country goes after some people.

“Drugs are bad. Drugs are bad. We’re going to go after you.”

At the same time everyone in our society, including the people making these laws, are using drugs to wake up, using drugs to go to sleep, using drugs to relax. There’s so much hypocrisy. Chris Rock, again, in that skit reminds us very, very clearly that the government is asking us to say no to certain drugs but they’re pushing, at the same time, other drugs.

DEAN BECKER: Tony, as you said, the drug war is not a laughing matter but the machinations of these drug warriors is pretty hilarious isn’t it?

TONY NEWMAN: You have to laugh so you don’t cry. It’s so sad that the ridiculousness of everyone’s using drugs in our society but only black and brown people are in cages. This idea that, as Bill Hicks showed us, that you can have an OK relationship with drugs but all the propaganda you hear is that if you use drugs you’re going to become a homeless heroin addict.

These things are funny when you see them as a skit but the consequences are real - 50,000 deaths in Mexico over the last couple years, our prisons filled, stuffed with people in cages because they have a substance abuse problem. So while it helps to kind of laugh and there’s some very powerful education that happens in these skits…like I said, you laugh so you don’t cry.

The drug war is not a laughing matter. The ridiculousness of people who think we’re winning the war on drugs is a joke.

DEAN BECKER: Indeed it is.

Once again, we’ve been speaking with Mr. Tony Newman, director of Media Relations for the Drug Policy Alliance.

You know, Tony, we had him on last week and the week before but he’s basically everywhere and here from a recent appearance on the Colbert Report is your boss, Mr. Ethan Nadelmann.

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STEPHEN COLBERT: My guest tonight says we could reduce border violence if we legalize drugs. Why don’t we just border violence? Please welcome Ethan Nadelmann.

[applause]

ETHAN NADELMANN: Thank you very much.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Ethan, nice to see you again.

ETHAN NADELMANN: Thank you – you too.

STEPHEN COLBERT: You have been a guest on my show before.

ETHAN NADELMANN: Yes.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Let me ask you something. Are you actually here or are we having a flashback?

ETHAN NADELMANN: I’m here.

STEPHEN COLBERT: You’re here?

ETHAN NADELMANN: I’m here.

STEPHEN COLBERT: OK. Just wanted to make sure. I just want to tell the viewers who might be watching this show high right now…start “Dark Side of the Moon” now…

Ethan, you say we should legalize drugs and that would solve all our problems. Go on. Sell me the idea of giving weed to my kids.

ETHAN NADELMANN: Well, Steve, I don’t want to give anything to your kids but the fact of the matter is we’re arresting almost 2 million Americans a year…

STEPHEN COLBERT: 2 million criminals, sir.

ETHAN NADELMANN: we have a half million people behind…

STEPHEN COLBERT: criminals!

ETHAN NADELMANN: Well, you know, people who have done just what this president and the past president and the president before that and …

STEPHEN COLBERT: But he didn’t get caught, sir.

ETHAN NADELMANN: No, that’s true. And that’s the problem. Too many people are getting caught and punished who should not be behind bars.

STEPHEN COLBERT: So what’s the answer then? Soft on crime – I hear that part – but what does it do for us?
ETHAN NADELMANN: It’s about getting smart on crime. It’s about focusing law enforcement resources onto people who are violent and predatory and stealing and not focusing on those people who just smoke a joint or whatever…

STEPHEN COLBERT: or whatever?!

ETHAN NADELMANN: Well, it’s also…

STEPHEN COLBERT: or smoke a joint or whatever?! That’s a huge loophole, my friend…or whatever…or free base monkey brain…what do you mean?

ETHAN NADELMANN: My view on this thing – you get behind the wheel of a car you deserve to be punished if you’re under the influence but if you’re not bothering anybody they shouldn’t bother you.

STEPHEN COLBERT: If more people are smoking pot there are going to be more people high and driving…high kids driving cars.

ETHAN NADELMANN: People are already smoking pot. They’re already smoking pot but they should not be going to prison.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Should we give up?

ETHAN NADELMANN: You know, at this point, when 40% of Americans are saying “Treat it like alcohol.” Probably 95% of your audience would support legalizing pot.

STEPHEN COLBERT: You cannot …you …

[applause]

STEPHEN COLBERT: If you’re right than that clapping means nothing. They just saw some flashing lights and they went, “Pretty!”

ETHAN NADELMANN: No….no, no, no.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Ethan, now listen. You’re comparing…what you said…people are already drinking but you can’t compare alcohol to drugs. Alcohol is not a drug. It is a delicious liquid that makes you exciting and courageous. And we can agree on that…

ETHAN NADELMANN: Stephen, but you can compare alcohol prohibition to marijuana prohibition.

STEPHEN COLBERT: How so…go on.

ETHAN NADELMANN: What’s going on in Mexico right now is like Chicago during prohibition under Al Capone times fifty. When you look at the gangsters, the violence, the border violence…the best way to deal with is to tax and regulate marijuana and take it out of the criminal justice system.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Tax?! Tax?! Tax?!

ETHAN NADELMANN: Tax and regulate.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Tax and regulate?! That is just liberals all over. Tax and toke liberals.

ETHAN NADELMANN: Oh, no, no, no.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Man, I can’t believe this is all about taxes for you now. You used to be about the weed. You have sold out.

ETHAN NADELMANN: No. This is about sensible, smart regulation. That’s what we need.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Sensible, smart regulation. We don’t need America’s burgeoning dope industry burdened with regulation.

[laughter]

STEPHEN COLBERT: A free market should decide what constitutes primo bud.

ETHAN NADELMANN: Some good people would agree with you on that but when you’re arresting 800,000 people a year for smoking a joint – that’s wrong. That’s wrong. We should not be doing that.

[applause]

STEPHEN COLBERT: Have you ever …done drugs?

ETHAN NADELMANN: Well, I had smoked the occasional joint when…

STEPHEN COLBERT: So you are a criminal and none of your arguments have validity now.

ETHAN NADELMANN: I have smoked the occasional joint when I’m watching you but never when I’m on you.

[laughter/applause]

STEPHEN COLBERT: You say…you mean on my show…right?

ETHAN NADELMANN: Yeah, that’s what I meant.

STEPHEN COLBERT: So Mexico’s drug violence goes down if we legalize pot.

ETHAN NADELMANN: The Attorney General of Arizona, he says, “I don’t want to legalize marijuana but we should have a debate about this.”

You have the city council of El Paso, Texas are saying, “Let’s have a debate.”

You have Senator Webb from Virginia saying, “Let’s have a debate.”

You got a very prestigious commission of former presidents of Latin America saying, “Let’s have a debate.”

Even if people don’t agree it’s the answer let’s open up this debate. Congress should stop being afraid of talking about this. State legislatures should put this on the table.

When 40% of Americans want this let’s have a debate.

STEPHEN COLBERT: OK, you sold me. I will agree that we should have an open, public debate in congress and in our public square.

ETHAN NADELMANN: OK.

STEPHEN COLBERT: Alright. Thank you so much. Ethan Nadelmann.

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DEAN BECKER: Ethan Nadelmann is, indeed, everywhere. By the way the website is http://drugpolicy.org

And now for something completely different – a song that’s climbing right to the top of the charts, “Policeman’s Lament.”

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[music]

Sinners like you deserve to die.
Thank god the law still lets me try
to find you and substances
and destroy your chances
and take your house and your children too.

Your choices make you unconditionally exterminable.

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DEAN BECKER: The following segment comes to us courtesy of PBS News Hour featuring Margaret Warner interviewing the new President-elect of Mexico, Enrique Pena Nieto.
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MARGARET WARNER: Now in both the campaign and on election night you promised to reduce the violence that’s plaguing the lives of ordinary Mexicans – 55,000 dead. How are you going to do that? Is it by focusing on the most violent cartels?

ENRIQUE PENA NIETO: [via translator] It’s quite clear that the fight against organized crime is something we cannot relinquish. It is a task, an obligation for the Mexican government.

My commitment is to lead this fight with efficiency and more resolve. There are achievements made by the current administration and some institutions have been strengthened.

We are going to need to adjust the strategy to achieve this major objective in the fight on organized crime. I’m talking about reducing violence. I’m talking about the strategy that does not have the support of society. If we don’t have the support of society we will hardly see the benefits or the support that we need to actually improve conditions of security for society.

I will maintain the presence of a Mexican army and the Navy and police in the states of the Mexican Republic where the problem of crime has been increasing. We will adjust the strategy so that we can focus on certain types of crime like kidnapping, homicide, extortion which today, unfortunately, have worsened or increased because we have a lot of impunity in some parts of the country.

The states’ task is to achieve more efficiency and to go back to the rule of law and apply or enforce laws strictly in our country.

Look, I believe that there is a concern around this issue assuming that this adjustment would mean not going after cartels involving drug trafficking. No, absolutely not. I want to be very clear.

The fight by the government will be against organized crime - drug trafficking, in all its forms and shape – but we have to focus especially on reducing violence but that doesn’t mean we should overlook or relinquish this task by the state to fight against all forms of organized crime.

I have publically said that I am against legalization of drugs. I don’t believe that this is the path to reduce violence and illegal trafficking of these products. However I am in favor of opening up a new debate on strategy and a way to fight drug trafficking.

It is very clear that after several years of this fight on drug trafficking we have more drug consumption and drug use and drug trafficking. That means that we are not moving in the right direction. Things are not working.

I am not saying that we should legalize – it’s exactly the opposite. I’m against legalization but with the debate where countries in the hemisphere and especially in the U.S. should participate in this broad debate to redefine the way in which we fight drug trafficking.

I’m truly convinced that the U.S. should be involved in the discussion and in the debate around this issue. I’m in favor of strengthening or improving relations with the U.S. – without a doubt.

In my conversation with President Obama yesterday when he called me to congratulate me he told me (and I fully agree with it) that we should maintain this level of collaboration that has existed so far between the U.S. and the Mexican governments and I’m interested in improving that level of collaboration, redefining the objectives of the bilateral agenda, and strengthening sovereignties and the collaboration and respect around these issues for both governments.

Well, I believe that the U.S. is collaborated significantly with the current Mexican government. My objective is to intensify this action and collaborate more – especially when it comes to fighting these drug cartels and organized crime groups.

We need to have safer borders but that also requires more collaboration from the U.S. government and an increased commitment to define policies and actions that, together with the Mexican government, will allow us to achieve better results.

MARGARET WARNER: Do you think it is practical to hope or expect or demand that the U.S. do more to stop the flow of especially assault weapons from the U.S. to Mexico?

ENRIQUE PENA NIETO: [via translator] This is an issue that has been surrounded by a high level of debate and we have been insisting on getting the U.S. more involved in fighting the arms trafficking. Unfortunately it has had a major impact. The problem has killed thousands of Mexicans, unfortunately, and it is an issue that, without a doubt, is unsolved.

We have not seen a good level of efficiency by the U.S. in terms of how to better control arms trafficking. I’m talking about high caliber weapons into our country.

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DEAN BECKER: Once again, that segment from the PBS News Hour where they were interviewing the President-elect of Mexico.

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TERRY NELSON: This is Terry Nelson of LEAP, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

BRITAIN is losing the war against drugs, Justice Secretary Ken Clarke warned on July 4th. He said the UK is slipping "backwards" in the fight to halt the flood of illegal narcotics.

But he dismissed campaigners' calls to decriminalise cannabis and other drugs.

Appearing before a committee of MPs, Mr Clarke also revealed that seven per cent of heroin addicts first tried the drug in prison. He admitted he did not have a "blinding insight" about how to tackle the scourge of drugs in the UK. He told the Home Affairs Select Committee: "We have been engaged in a war against drugs for 30 years. We're plainly losing it." But Mr Clarke insisted: "The Government has no intention whatever of changing the criminal law on drugs."

Mr Clarke said he wanted to cut the number of youngsters who dabble with drugs. And he admitted that drugs remain a huge problem in jails. New figures revealed 84 prison officers have been prosecuted for helping lags get drugs since 2007. Another 51 staff have been sacked.

This is further proof of the total failure of the global drug war. If you can't keep drugs out of prisons, where you have high walls topped with sharp wire, where everything coming in or going out can be totally searched, where people have zero rights and can be searched any time of the day or night; then how in the world do they think they can keep drugs out of a free society?

There is a glimmer of hope that the United States may be on the verge of ramping down the war on cannabis. Marc Ambinder's GQ story about a possible Obama pivot in the drug wars misses a crucial fact: the pivot has already happened, writes James Higdon.

The presidential request for the FY13 budget deals a mortal blow to the helicopter-powered marijuana eradication umbrella. It does so by cutting in half the funding for the U.S. National Guard Counterdrug program, the Defense Department's contribution to the marijuan-eradication effort that has, for the past 20 years, limited the size of domestic marijuana patches and increased the demand for "blood pot" imported by ultraviolent Mexican drug cartels-while doing nothing to stem the supply to anyone who wants to get high.

I agree that the National Guard has much better things to do than waste time and money turning dinasours into fumes over National Parks looking out for cannabis grows. Yes they have helped find many plots of cannabis and helped the government seize many assets and land but it is all for naught as there continues to be a increase in the amount of cannabis cultivated. And, even if they could destroy every cannabis plot in the U.S. there is still Mexico just next door that produces about 40 million pounds of cannabis a year compared to the measly ten million pounds produced in the U.S.

The way out of our drug problems is credible education and treatment not arrest and incarceration. Let's work to make this a better place for all of our citizens.

This is Terry Nelson of LEAP, http://www.leap.cc, signing off. Stay safe.

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DEAN BECKER: Thanks, Terry, and thank you for listening. Please visit our website, http://endprohibition.org Prohibido istac evilesco!

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For the Drug Truth Network, this is Dean Becker asking you to examine our policy of Drug Prohibition.

The Century of Lies.

This show produced at the Pacifica Studios of KPFT, Houston.

Transcript provided by: Jo-D Harrison of www.DrugSense.org