Reverend FD Becker: (00:00)
Those who believe in drug war, do not believe in public safety because of law enforcement's stubborn belief in this policy. Criminals around the world make hundreds of billions of dollars each year selling ever more deadly and contaminated substances. I am Dean Becker, the Reverend Most high broadcasting and standing upon moral high ground. Uh, hello my friends. Thank you for being with us here on, uh, moral High Ground, soon to become a, uh, a cultural baggage show for the network. Uh, I wanna start off with a couple of, um, I don't know, maybe a, a quote here. Lemme see if I can find it. Um, uh, this is from a gentleman named Steven Weinberg, uh, quote, with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil, that takes religion. End quote. Now, as soon as he gets, uh, configured here, we're gonna have bring in our guest a long time friend of the Drug Truth Network. He just returned from, I think, a long, uh, trip through Europe and, uh, especially into Switzerland, where he learned many great things about what they're doing with their heroin injection program. Uh, he was one of the founders of law enforcement against Prohibition, now deemed, uh, renamed to be Law Enforcement Action Partnership. Uh, I don't know if he's there. Uh, Howard, are you there buddy? 

Howard Wooldridge: (01:45)
Dean? I'm here. 

Reverend FD Becker: (01:46)
Hey, bud. Uh, good to hear from you. Yeah, I was just telling the folks that you, uh, what was it, a week or 10 days ago you returned from Switzerland? 

Howard Wooldridge: (01:54)
Yeah, I got back about 10 days ago, uh, from a five week trip, uh, which included, as you say, up a, uh, couple, two weeks in Switzerland. I met with the, uh, person in charge of the Swiss program for heroin treatment. Um, and I continue what is now a, a 20 year relationship with that health ministry. 

Reverend FD Becker: (02:14)
Well, and, and, um, you know, I, I had the opportunity to meet with, uh, Dr. Burkey back, I don't know, it's been five or six years ago now. Right. Uh, the inventor of the, the program, but there's a new gentleman in, or a new person in charge, right? 

Howard Wooldridge: (02:29)
Yeah. It's Dr. Anna Ripley is the person now in charge of the 25 clinics, 25 cities in Switzerland. And so we, we continue the relationship. I've continued the, the relationship. We had a good one hour meeting, mostly in German, so she knew I was fluent. And, uh, then a few more minutes in English to clarify a few things. And we are now on solid ground to continue our relationship. 

Reverend FD Becker: (02:52)
Well, you had sent me an email and I'm, I'm gonna bring it up here and get some more questions out of it, but, Mm-Hmm. , uh, they've been doing this, uh, how many years has this project been ongoing? 

Howard Wooldridge: (03:03)
Yeah, the, the program was put together 30 years ago by four doctors in Zurich, which had the famous needle park for your listeners who, uh, remember that, that that failure of an idea, and out of that failure, the, uh, four doctors were asked to devise a program for if it was their 25-year-old son or daughter that needed treatment for the heroin addiction. And they, they, they put it together without thoughts of, of politics. And the city council of Zurich, uh, enacted it. And it has been a worldwide, well, it has been a European wide success ever since. 

Reverend FD Becker: (03:38)
Uh, the, the, the point I I, I wanted to get to, and I've been kind of preaching it here, uh, over the years since I visited the good folks in Switzerland, is that, uh, something over 20 million times, they have injected pure heroin, and there's not been one overdose death. Correct. 

Howard Wooldridge: (03:55)
That is correct. Uh, 20 million doses administered at the clinic by a health professional doctor. And because they know what they're doing, and it's a pure clean diacetyl, morphine the big word for heroin, nobody's died in, uh, 30 years now. 

Reverend FD Becker: (04:13)
It is amazing. It truly is. And, and, um, and I remember that you had a note, uh, in that email you sent that since Covid, those who are well established within the program, uh, can now take home up to a seven day supply of, of heroin on their own. Correct? 

Howard Wooldridge: (04:32)
That is correct. Uh, the, uh, the average age of a patient dean is 59. These are guys who started out in 1994, and now they're getting as old as we are. And, uh, yeah. Once you've established that years long, uh, trust, then they were allowed and still are allowed to take seven days home. 

Reverend FD Becker: (04:52)
I I, I'd like to think that, uh, you know, we could do the same here. You know, when I, uh, my, my trip to Europe, uh, I, I got a chance to meet with the drug czar of Portugal, uh, Dr. Glau. Mm-Hmm. , uh, we, we had a discussion, I think back then. Um, America had 60,000 overdose death for, uh, that year. Mm-Hmm. . 

Howard Wooldridge: (05:14)
Right. 

Reverend FD Becker: (05:15)
And, and I asked him, how many did they have there in Portugal? He said, 27 2 7. Right. 

Howard Wooldridge: (05:22)
Which, 

Reverend FD Becker: (05:23)
Which shows that, uh, with a more logical approach to this and, uh, uh, you know, less draconian measures, uh, that they were able to greatly reduce their, uh, overdose tests. I, I, I figured out they had 27 for the year, and we had 130 every day of the week. 

Howard Wooldridge: (05:43)
Right. And 

Reverend FD Becker: (05:43)
That just shows how off base we are, doesn't it? 

Howard Wooldridge: (05:47)
Yeah. It's, it's basically as I, when I'm, when I'm up and down the halls of Congress talking to, uh, members and their staff, I try to, I've been doing this for the last two years, saying, you need to become a pro-life, uh, uh, member of Congress in regards to your constituents who are being hurt and killed by the, the heroin now fentanyl epidemic, uh, saying we should be doing anything and everything to keep a, a patient alive from Tuesday to Wednesday and Wednesday to Thursday. And if unfortunately, in the USA, uh, we take a we don't care approach. And that's why another 200 people will die today from a, a fentanyl overdose because we are not pro-life for adults. 

Reverend FD Becker: (06:33)
Thanks, Howard. Um, tell the folks a little bit more about your work, uh, there in, uh, the halls of Congress, please. 

Howard Wooldridge: (06:41)
Yeah. I, I started back in, uh, 2006, uh, representing, uh, first Leap and then later cops and, uh, citizens opposing prohibition. And basically, um, after I got my feet wet, I, uh, helped put together the first ever 10th Amendment law for marijuana back in 2010, which was adopted by the, uh, marijuana movement here. And, uh, the good news is, after, uh, 10 years of effort, we now have a solid majority of Republicans and Democrats who would end the 1937 federal prohibition of marijuana. The bad news is that, um, politics is now preventing it. And Chuck Schumer has not called for a vote in five years, despite knowing we have a majority to pass the bill and put it on the President's desk. 

Reverend FD Becker: (07:33)
Well, I, I find that, uh, interesting, intriguing, uh, I find that, you know, in, in years past when I was just dealing with marijuana, wanting to legalize that, and, you know, um, maybe moving into psychedelics, uh, I could get a lot more politicians to, to come on the show, to talk about, you know, the need for change, et cetera, et cetera. But as, as a, you know, you and I are, I think, are the only two people I know that wear shirts saying, uh, legalized heroin to save lives. And that scares the hell out of a lot of politicians as of this moment. I, at the national level, the, uh, state level, the city county level, there's not one person, not the mayor. Whitmeyer not the sheriff, not the, the, uh, police chief or even the district attorney, who had, for many years been a great friend of this program. None of them will come on the show now to talk about this need for change. Talk about that situation, please. 

Howard Wooldridge: (08:38)
Well, a couple of things. One, as you know, and your audience knows nobody, no politician in this country talks about the war on drugs and the macro of a policy where we are still arresting about 1.1 million people a year, almost all of them, for simple possession. Uh, secondly, law enforcement continues to support the policy because you give us 99 0 billion dollars a year to chase drug users, a few drug dealers, and put 'em in jail. This is a huge paycheck. Lots of, uh, job security, lots of overtime and all paid for by state, local, and federal governments. We like the money more than we want to, uh, do our, our, our true job, which is, of course, public safety. Um, and third, in our, our generation, say anybody above 65, there is no way they're going to say the three hardest words in English. I was wrong. The ego won't allow it. And politicians are the worst segment of our society to admit they've never made a mistake. And, uh, from Joe Biden on down, they're not gonna wake up one day and say, you know what? I've been wrong for 35 years. This is a really bad, inappropriate, destructive, dysfunctional, immoral policy given the racism. They're not gonna do it. No Democrat, almost no Democrat, no Republican. 

Reverend FD Becker: (09:58)
Right. Uh, and, and they will dabble in it, so to speak. Uh, for years, uh, uh, Texas Politician Bero O'Rourke, has been a friend of the show, came on the show many times, right. Uh, to, to talk about the need for change, uh, very, uh, very seriously addressing the need for change. I don't think he actually called for outright legalization of all drugs, but, uh, he was close. And as of now, he won't come on the program because again, I have the questions that may interfere with their standing within their party or to their voters. It's, it's a mm-Hmm, , it's a crippling situation. It, it, it hurts to know that, uh, even people who are fully aware of this need for change are afraid to speak of it. It's, it's scary, isn't it? 

Howard Wooldridge: (10:45)
It is. And, and let me, I would be remiss if I didn't add Dean. As I say, we've had the votes in Congress now for almost six years, for a clean, simple, 10th Amendment centered bill to repeal federal prohibition of marijuana. And the trouble is, my, my former friends in colleagues in Congress from the major organizations, are now fighting, passing a clean, simple bill because it would affect their organization's ability to raise money and, or for like MPP, uh, um, for, uh, Americans for safe access and normal, it would put 'em out of business. They would actually finish their mission statement of ending marijuana prohibition, and then they would be out of a job. So, sadly, my former friends are now my adversaries who are pushing Schumer successfully not to call for a vote on a one page simple repeal bill. And here we are. 

Reverend FD Becker: (11:40)
Well, there is some hope, um, been some, um, uh, reports coming from, uh, uh, soon to be President Harris's camp. I hope, uh, that he wanting to call for legalization of cannabis. And I, I, I, I find that to be a wonderful, uh, addition for her campaign. Uh, but addressing your thought there, you know, I, I have frustrations with the current state of drug reform as well, and it, it's clear that you can see through their promises of incremental change. And the reality is that the system benefits too many powerful interests for it to be dismantled so easily. You know, banks, prisons, law enforcement, even reform o organizations often profit from this status quo. They, they, they make genuine progress elusive. And it's a self-perpetuating cycle. Mm-Hmm. fueled by fear, misinformation, and greed, as you were saying. Correct. And it continues to cause death and destruction on a massive scale. Uh, you know, the, the name of the show, moral High Ground, uh, says it all, we own it. And there is not one person on this planet willing to come on this program and to say, oh, how can you be the, the Reverend Most high you, you don't deserve that title. You, you're full of it. Uh, let me tell you why you're wrong, show you where you're wrong. And there's not one person willing to do that. Uh, it, it's just, uh, mm-Hmm, , I, I don't know. But your response to that, 

Howard Wooldridge: (13:09)
Well, certainly, uh, you know, one of the things I've left out in terms of, um, uh, adversaries is the banking system. You know, worldwide prohibition drugs are about $400 billion in and gross sales, and they need a bank to clean, clean their money when they charge four to 6% of, um, of the transaction. So you can do the math. We're talking multiple billions and billions of dollars the banks make, and that is like a unseen force in Congress. I can't go up to a banking lobbyist and say, you should stop doing that. They will say, what? Because it's all illegal. Every once in a blue moon, a bank gets caught, but that's, they've got the big, big bucks. And, uh, I'm just a little cowboy from, from Fort Worth, Texas. 

Reverend FD Becker: (13:56)
No, you're, you're absolutely right. And I don't know if that, uh, one television program saw on, uh, Ozark, I think it was called, where it was about money laundering and, uh, how the, the small mom and pop, uh, organizations, you know, uh, open a bar and use it to launder the money or whatever, just any, any type facility. And, and, um, it's, it's just a, an example of, you know, I talk about the drug war monger cartel, and that's the Senate loa cartel, and I guess it's the US Congress. It's the bankers, it's the money, uh, the, the people that, uh, do the mm-Hmm. The treatment and urine testing and prison building, and the list is pretty well endless. There are millions of people who make their living because of this belief in drug war. Right? 

Howard Wooldridge: (14:42)
Oh, yeah. I forgot the, there's, there's a number of adversaries. Another one on the hill that, that fights me every day, besides private prisons, of course, is the drug treatment industry. This is about a 25 billion, billion dollar industry that does not want to have the, the, uh, changes made that would make it clean and simple, like the Swiss program to treat an addict for 55 $0 a day with an outpatient clinic. And, uh, so they fight everything I do tooth and nail, because their bottom line would be affected if we adopted their sensible Swiss policy, save lives, save monies that would cost them $25 billion. So they fight me every day in Congress. 

Reverend FD Becker: (15:24)
It's, it's, um, I, I don't know, man. Uh, I I'm glad you persevere. I, I'm trying to persevere as well. It's, uh, you know, decades, you and I have invested into trying to, uh, illustrate, illuminate, uh, expose, uh, the, the, the fallacy and, and to present a great, uh, alternative that, as you say, would save lives, save monies, um, and, and stop filling our prisons full. You know, I, I look at it this way. I, I call the, uh, black marketing drugs the world's largest multi-level marketing organization out, out, yeah. Any cosmetics or any plastic stuff they sell, it is the world's largest. And it, it's an enticement to, um, get your friend or your brother or your cousin to, uh, Hey, man, you can make a few bucks selling these drugs. You can save money and, and, and get your staff, uh, cheaper. And, and that's what helps to, uh, I I call it a frenzy. The drug war is a frenzy to, uh, sometimes to find it and then to use it quickly, uh, before you get caught or have to go to work or, or what, or get found out. It's, it's all just, um, a madhouse, isn't it? 

Howard Wooldridge: (16:42)
It, it absolutely is. And, um, uh, it, it's just, it's a, a good aspect of the Swiss program that's, that's illustrate is that today in Switzerland, um, it is now difficult, difficult for a person, uh, anybody to find heroin, um, in a rural area, because so many of the addicts are in treatment, and almost all of the addicts stop selling heroin that it's difficult to find. You can, uh, but it's getting, it's very, very difficult. So this is, uh, yeah, obviously a step forward. The Swiss are proud of it. And, uh, I I wanna point out that, you know, the Swiss, you're a patient for life. So when you relapse, which nobody talks about when you relapse, they, they bring you back in, get you through your bad situation if somebody, your mom died or something, and make sure you go home and you're not going to hurt yourself with street heroin. 

Howard Wooldridge: (17:36)
And this is one of the bigger aspects that the Swiss use and the eight countries that have adopted it, like Portugal and Norway, uh, where they save lives because they are so vehemently pro-life. And you can imagine, Dean, when I talk, I talk to Republicans about this, and I say, would you please become pro-life for your adults who are addicted to fentanyl? I get Republicans on a regular basis being a little angry with me, uh, because they're, they're pro-Life is of course, all about the fetus and the baby versus adults, and it makes them uncomfortable when I bring this message. But of course, as a lobbyist, that's my job. Make you uncomfortable with your bad position. 

Reverend FD Becker: (18:15)
Uh, Howard, uh, the one thing I've been seeing news coming out of, uh, uh, Switzerland is that they are, uh, they have been contemplating, or perhaps they have already put in place, uh, a, uh, distribution of cocaine. Uh, did you learn anything about that while you were over there? 

Howard Wooldridge: (18:35)
I did, uh, talk to, uh, Dr. Rigley about that. What this is, is in the cantone of bound, the biggest one, um, and the city itself have bound about 200,000 people. They have a proposal before the city council and the Cantone governments, that's basically like a big county, uh, to, uh, open up on a experimental pilot project, a store for Swiss citizens only. Only Swiss could go in and buy their daily supplies of cocaine. Cocaine is the drug, which right now, which for several years now, has been sweeping Europe all over the place. This is now their number one problem, uh, in terms of, uh, you know, black market crime, uh, et cetera. And it's interesting, Dean, uh, that the arguments that the proposals, the proposals are making on that is exactly what everybody knows. You reduce crime, death, disease, um, and overdose. And, uh, so it's, it's the same thing as the heroin, except it's cocaine. And it's a pro-life approach. The people who are foolish enough to, to use cocaine. And so they would save all kinds of money on tax dollars if they adopted it is so controversial. Uh, they're still, they're still in pilot project with five marijuana stores. They wanna see the results of the marijuana stores before they try cocaine. And that marijuana experiment, uh, pilot project ends in, uh, 14 months 

Reverend FD Becker: (20:06)
Ends. In what way are, are they going to stop the, the, uh, attempt, or are they going to allow it to grow? 

Howard Wooldridge: (20:14)
Well, the marijuana, according to the health ministry, uh, the, the five stores are, are very successful, no problems, uh, to speak of. And they're, of course, going to let the pilot project continue. And it was Dr. Wrigley's opinion that if everything continued as is going now, they would, they were for sure going to expand it. So, um, um, but that's gonna be in, uh, at the, at the end of 25, I believe. 

Reverend FD Becker: (20:42)
Okay. Now, I'm gonna see if I can get this to play. This is a track I recorded just last night, uh, in the wrap up, uh, visit of, uh, one Donald J uh, let's see if I can get it to work here. Mm-Hmm. 

Joe Rogan: (20:55)
You hear a lot of people that talk about psychedelics. 

Jeff Bezos: (20:58)
I Exactly. I've, I've actually heard many people say that, uh, LSD or, or, you know, mushrooms or, uh, MDMA made them a better person. Yeah. 

Joe Rogan: (21:07)
Many people. Yeah. Also, if there's drugs that are available right now that can absolutely ruin people's lives, this, the, the rationalization for stopping other drugs that might ruin people's lives, but also can help a lot of people's lives, it doesn't make any sense. Right. You're, you're, you're ba it's basically the same thing as censorship. You're taking away people's ability to discern what's true and not true. Yeah. And you're taking away people's ability to discern what's good for you and not good for you. And the way to find that out is to have as much information as possible. Exactly. So, to do research Yeah. And actually to have unbiased, actual objective observers who are looking at all this stuff. They give you real data. Yes. And the opposite of that, or the counter that is like, if you don't do that, you are empowering cartels. Yes. That's the whole reason why they have all that money. It's because it's illegal to sell these drugs in America. The demand is never going away. So instead of like, limiting the amount of drugs, now you've got toxic drugs 'cause fentanyl and all this other, because they're not pure. So you're just killing people. You're not saving anybody. Right. By protecting them from themselves. 

Reverend FD Becker: (22:14)
Okay. That was a little slip up on my part. That was actually a clip recorded last night on the Joe Rogan show featuring, uh, uh, Bezos, uh, talking about drugs and, and talking fairly intelligently, uh, the, the clip with Trump, I'll play here in just a minute, but it, but they were getting it pretty much right? Weren't they there, Howard? 

Howard Wooldridge: (22:35)
Oh, yeah. I mean, Dean, as you know, this is not rocket science. This is, and then when you, to, to older folks, you mentioned, you know, moonshine and, and, uh, our alcohol prohibition, it's tens of thousands of people died drinking bad whiskey. It's the exact same principle, uh, just instead of whiskey, it's, it's, it's cocaine, heroin, meth, whatever. And, uh, the solution is the same as 1933. You let the states legalize it, regulate it, and so there's a clean supply. So you have, quote unquote, a clean poison, a clean substance, which is probably not good for you. But, uh, you certainly destroy all the crime, all the al Capones, all the Mexican drug cartels. And everybody knows this, but nobody's talking about it. We just don't bring it up as a topic in polite society. 

Reverend FD Becker: (23:28)
No, we, and that's, that's the whole point, is that, you know, uh, back again, when, when I first began this, I was heralded here in this, this part of Texas. I, I was invited to speak to churches from the pulpit Sunday morning to the whole congregation about wow, the, the, the drug war being evil. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, uh, I was applauded. I was invited to dinner, uh, you know, lunch after the service, hanging with the kids was, I, it, it was a, a great sign that, that people understood this, the message just Mm-Hmm, soaked right in Mm-Hmm. . And, and yet now, um, I, I'm almost a pariah, you know, uh, they mm-Hmm, , they, they know I have questions that could, um, perhaps destroy their career, as you said, they can't admit they were wrong. Uh, right. It's, um, just a horrid situation. Uh, I, I'm gonna see if I can get this, uh, a thing to play. Now, this was, again, last night, uh, and, and it's example of how this drug war came to be with fear and propaganda and just lies. And, and let's see if I can get it to play here. 

Idiot Trump: (24:45)
You call app, you're now a drug trafficker or a human trafficker, and you say, ding, ding, ding. Hello. When do I drop these people? Go about a seven miles up, and then go a mile left and just drop him at the opening of the gate. Okay, then can, can you believe? Can you believe you go 

Reverend FD Becker: (25:09)
On here? I mean, that's it, it, he says there's an app that's available now that, that people, uh, can use to, I guess, call for advice on how to smuggle. I'm, I'm not sure, but it it's just another example of making the people, you know, fear drugs are bad run for your lives. And, and it's just, it is the prohibition that destroys, that empowers terrorist cartels and gangs. It's not drugs, it's prohibition. Right? 

Howard Wooldridge: (25:39)
Well, yeah. In fact, I bring it up all the time with my staffers I talk to in Congress. I've talked about, uh, just short of 400 in the last two years. Um, and, you know, I point out every time, you know, if, if we, if I break my arm walking out of the building, I go to the er, what are they gonna gimme for pain? Fentanyl is the most common drug given for in er emergency rooms for pain. I said, but I know it won't kill me because it's a clean fentanyl from the hospital pharmacy administered by a healthcare professional, a doctor, so therefore it won't die. And it's a bunch of legislative, a bunch of congressional aides, um, go, well, yeah, you're right. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. Fentanyl in the hospital's. Okay. Well, it, it gets back to the obvious that it's, it's clean supply pure, but the macro message is, well, fentanyl kills you. 

Howard Wooldridge: (26:33)
And except it doesn't, if it's coming from the hospital pharmacy, and this is the conundrum that we, we have today where, uh, doctors use fentanyl every day thousands of times. But yet, we're demonizing this thing as being a horrible killer drug. And, um, and as, as I've said before, heroin is simply strong morphine, because the other drug that you might get at the emergency room is, uh, morphine for your pain versus fentanyl. You have to ask a doctor why one's better than the other for certain situations. But bottom line is the pure clean supply reduces health problems by 99%. 

Reverend FD Becker: (27:13)
You know, it's rare that I get, uh, much correspondence from the listeners. But here's one that was actually sent to the, uh, uh, the general manager of KPFT. Um, you should give this article to Dean Becker. I feel he's living in a different world. I figure he must have plenty of followers and financial support enough to keep this repetitive show on KPFT. It sends mixed messages to those who do listen and or use, and then they quote an article, as America's marijuana use grows, so do the harms. And, uh, goes on to say, the number of medical problems from frequent usage is increasing. It's not the same drug that it was years ago, that's for sure. And this isn't mm-Hmm. from illegal. It's coming from states where it has been legalized. Uh, goes on to talk about cannabinoid hyper Meis syndrome, uh, warning from the National Library of Medicine, NIH as usual, take what you want and disregard the rest. 

Reverend FD Becker: (28:10)
Uh, and I responded to this, uh, I wrote them back, uh, immediately. Uh, uh, let's see if I can find my response here. That's pretty long. But, uh, thank you for your concern. I worry a little about the harms of cannabis. The real problem is the marketplace, the drug war monger sling, the idea of cannabis being harmful to frighten US citizens every few years, so as to perpetuate the thought that we need their opinions to live. You are correct to be concerned about the lack of control of these substances. Why do we bow before the ludicrously named Controlled Substances Act? My shows are indeed evergreen pertinent, as long as folks believe that prohibition is the way to control a half trillion dollar industry. And it goes on from there. But, mm-Hmm, , I, I feel, I, I open, I responded as openly and honestly as I could. Your your thoughts on that little discussion, 

Howard Wooldridge: (29:06)
Right? I mean, there's multiple reports, but I, I, I'm, they show me all the time in Congress about the harms of marijuana and, and the increase in problems. What they never say is, we're seeing a decrease in the use of alcohol. And every doctor on the planet is going to say, well, yes, if a person switches from alcohol to marijuana, it's a much safer choice, less, less harmful by far. Uh, and so you never see those reports. It's because the, the, uh, media is controlled by people who wanna continue the status quo of, of prohibition. And the one thing I would point out, Dean, for your listeners, uh, what I found with great success in Congress and off on the street, you know, I wear my, my shirt, uh, cops say, legalized heroin. Ask me why. And I've had tens of thousands of people on the streets from all 50 states, 10 countries ask me why. 

Howard Wooldridge: (29:58)
And, um, when, when you respond with I Howard, I the cop, I can protect you and your family better from bad guys trying to hurt you, whether it's drunk drivers or pedophiles, somebody stealing your bicycle. If I don't waste time on somebody using drugs, and Dean, I can tell you the score is several thousand to zero. Nobody goes, comes back and says, . That's, that's, that's, I I I see the wisdom of your words that, um, uh, the police could do a better job protecting your family. Because what I've learned in talking to 400 Rotaries is that, um, uh, people wanna know, how does this help my 14-year-old, 15-year-old girl or boy? And when you say you wanna protect your family better, they see that with so many police officers spending time on drugs, they do have less time to protect their children from the pedophile or the drunk driver or whatever. You're 

Reverend FD Becker: (30:54)
Absolutely right. You know, and I, I think about it that I, the, the people who are avoiding me, I, I have interviewed the sheriff of this town. Yeah. I have interviewed the district attorney of this town. I have interviewed the mayor of this town before. Yet now, those three in particular will not come on this show. Will not, I don't know. I, I guess they, they can't defend drug war, and so they just have to run. I I I, I, that's the only thing I've got. Mayor Meyer, this is a direct challenge to you. You know, the truth of this, you, you need to speak of it. There are cities around the world that are making these incremental changes. As much as I hate 'em, I, I want the, the whole nine yards. But you can help in that regard. You can speak boldly. You can tell the state legislators that have got their heads up their posteriors. You know the truth, sir, I'm begging you to please come on this show. Um, 

Howard Wooldridge: (31:52)
Well, and, and that, and Dean, I may interject that when you put this down to the, as I say, the personal level, which I've been doing now for about 10 years, saying, I wanna protect your family from bad guys better, if I don't waste time on drug, people employ Darwin and, and personal responsibility as the cornerstones. This is, this is in a sense, music to a lot of Republicans that I want to employ personal responsibility and Darwin as the cornerstones of drug policy. If you're that stupid to use crack cocaine and, and blow your brains out, you know, they, they care about their family, not somebody out there using crack cocaine. And, uh, so that's one way I sell this product of mine in Congress better, is when I bring it down to the personal level, personal level of I wanna protect you and your family. And they see the immediate wisdom of, yeah. If you didn't have, uh, we still have like 64,000 full-time narcotics officers in the United States. They're not chasing pedophiles. They're chasing Willie Nelson and, and Charlie Sheen and his friends. And so it's a horrible waste when, when there are pedophiles going after your children. And, uh, this does resonate. 

Reverend FD Becker: (33:01)
Well, and and you're talking about those, how many thousand, 64,000 was it? 

Howard Wooldridge: (33:07)
Yes, around 64,000, uh, officers in the, uh, narcotics division of every police department. 

Reverend FD Becker: (33:13)
And, and you, you see 'em, uh, many times, uh, during a bust. They, they jump out of a car, they, they rush the car. They, they get the people out. They start frisking 'em and looking for drugs and all this. And these are the guys, they're, they're dressed in blue jeans and, and, uh, I don't know, pink Floyd shirts. And they got a beard down to their, you know, chest. Yeah. And, and they're trying to look like drug users. And many times they are drug users. They, they use drugs to in and infiltrate and ingratiate themselves with users Mm-Hmm. . So that they, they are recognized as a friend, an ally, uh, not a cop. And, uh, the deception is, is the, um, really ugly. And, and the way they, I don't know, just, um, turn against the, the supposed friends. It, it's ugly as well, isn't it? 

Howard Wooldridge: (34:04)
Yeah, it, it is. And let me add another thing that, to, to use that in my, uh, quiver of my arrows is I, I've asked this question all the time on the street and the people in Congress, okay? So in Michigan, where I was an officer, if I sell Mr. Willie Nelson an ounce of marijuana, I'm looking at four years in a state prison for selling marijuana to an adult. Now it costs about $45,000 to put somebody in jail in Michigan. Do you, as a taxpayer, do you wanna spend 45,000 or 90,000 or, or $180,000 putting me in jail for selling a 90-year-old man a ounce of marijuana deemed without exception? Everyone says, I don't want to spend any money. If you, if you sell an a bag of weed to an adult, they don't care. I said, they always care about their children. I said, well, then you need to tell your legislature to basically, let's say, let's start a legal age of, of, of purchasing marijuana 30 or something. And, uh, stop putting people in jail for selling a grown man, grown woman, a baggie of weed. And that's the way I, I, I kind of drive a wedge in the idea of Republican thinking that if you wanna be fiscally responsible, if you don't wanna waste taxpayer dollars, stop putting guys in jail for four years for selling somebody a bag of weed. 

Reverend FD Becker: (35:23)
Yeah. Uh, I, I've short my response to that, uh, listener who, who had written the station. And here, here's what I wrote to them a little bit more. I wanna share, if you know, I beat a, a, a dead horse every week, then this is not really for you. Control is legalizing all the hard drugs. Let Merck make meth, Pfizer make cocaine, and let Bayer once again, make heroin, sell to adults at Walgreens for 2 cents of the black market dollar. Provide information on dosage where help is available. Stop arrests, except those selling to our children will have tons of room in prison to hold them for as long as you like. Let Houstonians grow pot mushrooms and cactus, and sell or share with their neighbors. Caravans will diminish. Prisons will be more manageable. Terrorists and traffickers will lose hundreds of billions per year. US gangs will shrink, drug violence will dissipate. And most importantly, tens of thousands of drug users will live to see additional years of life. Who can argue against that? That's, that's what I wanna bring forward to any of these politicians, anybody who wants to come on this show, defend yourself. Why do you believe in this madness? Your response, Howard? 

Howard Wooldridge: (36:35)
Well, what what the, the most common response is, is that, well, if you, if you put all these things in a, in a shelf in Walgreens, you're gonna have millions and millions of new people using cracked meth and heroin. They, I can, you and I both know this, dean, there's never been one study ever done in USA or any country I know of that shows that regular people are going to start from 14 to 90, are gonna start using these drugs just because you legalize it for adults 21 and over. In fact, I, in my, in my 20, wow, 26 years of activism, I've run into 11 doctors board certified in addiction psychology. And all 11 have said there's not going to be an increase in use because you can't wake up tomorrow morning and be that stupid as to try heroin. Or if you're, it's like if you're non-smoker of alc of, of, uh, tobacco, I can't give away free cigarettes because no, no, no teenagers, no, no adult's gonna start using, uh, free cigarettes because they're not that stupid. It's the same thing for cracked meth and heroin. They're not going to, but the fear is out there. And that's always their a thing. Well, what if, you know, used increases? It'll be a disaster for society. Well, let's do a study and ask the top addiction doctors in America. And nobody has ever done the study because they do not want to have the answer. 

Reverend FD Becker: (37:59)
No. So, so true. My guest last week, uh, what's kind of adverse to my thoughts on legalizing, uh, was saying something to the effect, well, we don't want people to have access to this stuff. And I, I've responded, they're bringing that stuff north or, or to our country with submarines and ships and airplanes and semi trucks full and, and, you know, drones and God knows the climbing over the walls, et cetera. And, uh, it's available everywhere. It's often noted that if you bust a, a big, uh, outlet and get all their drugs, well, within a day or two, that city will be full again, because it's such a profitable, um, way to make money, right? 

Howard Wooldridge: (38:42)
Uh, correct. I mean, that's, and by the way, the, the DEA in their pamphlet, they put out the earlier this century, and it's still true, of course, that quote, in their pamphlet, drugs are readily available to America's youth, unquote. So even the DEA, uh, admits that any, any 14-year-old can go out and get crack meth or heroin, you know, just like that. So the idea that, um, not putting it in a store reduces availability, is, is BA Bs? How's that? 

Reverend FD Becker: (39:15)
Right? Oh, no, I, uh, you know, I, as I've indicated, you know, I've tried to invite people on my show, but preachers, uh, uh, uh, DEA agents, I had one last year said, yeah, I'm gonna come on your show, Dean. Hey, he lied. He lied big time. Um, I, I'd like to bring on some preachers or some priests, uh, any politicians, but I, I'd also like to have reporters from A, B, C or the Houston Chronicle or, or any of these major outlets that, that, that spout the, the great thing, oh, we've got a table full of drugs and guns looky here, yipe, we've done it again. And that's happened how many tens or a hundred thousand times over the decades of this drug war that they, oh, we did it again. We won. We won. And, and we lost your 

Howard Wooldridge: (40:01)
Response. And, and it, and it's not just Texas, by the way, there was a couple of good articles, um, a couple years ago in the Washington Post, you know, one of the premier, uh, newspapers of the country. I made contact with one of the two reporters who, who wrote it, put it together. And I said, Hey, if you wanna know how to save lives, you need to jump on an airplane, take a four day trip to Switzerland. And they're, they are the world's best treatment, a program. And I know some people can set up the, you know, visit the, uh, clinic like you and I did, and then talk to the health ministry. It's just a four day jaunt. And I said, if you want, I will pay for your plane ticket, you know, outta my organization. And, uh, they said, thanks, but no thanks. 

Howard Wooldridge: (40:45)
So there's just a, there's a, some kind of darn conspiracy out there that says, we don't wanna know how to fix it. Let's just continue as we are. And as you say, as we lose, 200 people put it to you this way, Dean, my Frederick County, where I live in Maryland, is going, is on track. I've seen the numbers is on track to lose as many people from a, a fentanyl overdose as the entire, this is a county of about 300,000 as the entire country of Switzerland was 7 million people. That's the, that's the stark difference. Like you, you mentioned Portugal earlier. Their deaths are down in the, in the, in the two dig two digits. And, uh, and ours is of course, three digits every day. And nobody is talking about in the Congress anyway, maybe we should look in a, a better way to do it. We've suffered a million dead, and nobody wants to look at, is there a better way to do it? And I've been preaching that, by the way, in Congress for 17 years. There is a better way. Uh, and nobody wants to go to Switzerland and, uh, uh, Steve for themselves, 

Reverend FD Becker: (41:52)
Well, I, I preach Switzerland, uh, nearly every week because it is the prime example, sterling example of what can be done. And, and yet, as you say, uh, politicians here, it, it is like some sort of, i, I don't know, criminal organization. These people don't care how many people die. That's, that's really, that's just sad. Uh, 

Howard Wooldridge: (42:16)
Let me say, let me, uh, inject what the, I have some, some cheerful news. Not much. The, the members of Congress are nowhere near taking a vote to learn more or vote to change. The good news is, you know, I deal with mostly 25 and 30 year olds. These are some of the smartest kids in America. And I can tell you that almost, almost without exception, 99 and a hundred, when I give 'em the message that there's a better way, they respond very positively. Because every eight I've talked to these last two years about the Swiss program knows somebody who died from a heroin or Fenty overdose in high school, college, or grad school. Everybody knows somebody when they're these kids. And so they are very much in tune with becoming pro-life when it comes to adults, because they've known friends since, you know, grade school and high school who died. 

Howard Wooldridge: (43:08)
There were regular good people. Then they had a sports injury or some kind of surgery, and your listeners can finish out. That paragraph got hooked on Oxycontin and moved on to, uh, heroin and Fenty. So the good, the young, the, the young people get it, I would say my, my street experience, um, with my shirt, um, I'm, I'm saying probably about everybody under 55 0 gets it that we need to dramatically change course and adopt a new, a new policy. But these are not the power, the people in power, they won't be there for another 15 years. 

Reverend FD Becker: (43:42)
You know, Howard, I, uh, it's been, well, many years back, maybe five, six years ago, uh, the, uh, marijuana legalization group here, um, Texas normal or whatever they call themselves, had had a big day Yeah. At the Texas State House. And, uh, that day I wore my shirt saying, legalize heroin to save lives. Right? And I stood, I stood in line at the cafeteria with that shirt on and let everybody who bought food that day from the cafeteria, see that shirt. I was chastised by the, the, the marijuana people for being so bold, or whatever you want to call it, Uhhuh . But I've, uh, I was, they told everyone to visit their legislator's office. Mm-Hmm. I went to 17 legislator's offices wearing that. And as you say, the youngsters, the, uh, staffers, uh, they loved what I was doing. They knew that I was right. They, they embraced the thought and the idea and, and, uh, reaching beyond marijuana, because until prohibition loses its luster, marijuana will always be suspect, uh, causes insanity, criminality, and death, that, that just lingers in the air around these politicians. Does it not? 

Howard Wooldridge: (44:56)
Well, it does for the, for people in our generation, but I can tell you, I mean, you know, the latest polls, six oh, 60% of Republicans register Republicans across the country believe we should legalize, regulate marijuana, treat it basically look like, like, like beer. Uh, but again, um, uh, the party has my best information. Party leaders will not vote on marijuana, bring it up or pass it, because there's no political advantage to passing a law that says, treat marijuana like beer. So they don't. And here we are, 

Reverend FD Becker: (45:30)
You know, uh, earlier you mentioned something about, uh, comparing alcohol and, and, and marijuana. And, uh, uh, within the past week, I think it was the Washington Post had a story indicating that they've determined now that more people are using cannabis than are using alcohol, which I, I say hurrah or wonderful news. Mm-Hmm. . But within their story, oh, there's still some doubts about what it might mean, and, oh, I don't know, the, the extracts and Oh, there's this, it's not the pot. It used to be all this crap. Right. 

Howard Wooldridge: (46:02)
And, 

Reverend FD Becker: (46:02)
Um, you know, I, I've gotta say this. I've been smoking pot for, geez, 50 something years now, and Mm-Hmm. back when I began, most of it was rather poor Mexican stuff, but you could make hash out of it. Right. You could make out it, you, you could make extracts that were, you know, much stronger. And there was beginnings of things like, uh, it was called tie sticks, which was a high grade, uh, uh, marijuana being brought from Vietnam by our soldiers over there. Mm-Hmm. . And, and, um, I, I guess my point I'm wanting to get to is that the fear is what runs this. It's, it is not, there's been no deaths from marijuana folks, none from just a regular marijuana. The, maybe some of these extracts are made by poor chemists and put all kinds of crap in it, who knows. But marijuana in and of itself has never killed anybody. And yet it's still illegal in, well, half of America's, uh, states as we speak. Right? 

Howard Wooldridge: (47:01)
Yeah. It's legal in, uh, in 24 states. Uh, we'll probably have, uh, probably North Dakota will legalize here, uh, today. Um, but Florida is real iffy. Um, but at least at, like you said, the national level, both Trump and Harris, um, uh, have said they will push for, um, legalized regulate tax marijuana, which is a good start. But of course, they're politicians and they make promises on a lot of issues. 

Reverend FD Becker: (47:32)
Well, and within this past month, Trump has also said that drug, uh, users and sellers should be, uh, face a quick trial and a quick execution. I know there is that, uh, it's, it's just a means to rattle the bones, to frighten people, to just maintain this $400 billion industry. Uh, and, and that's the point. It's 400 billion goes to criminals around the world, to terrorists, to cartels to the, your neighborhood gang. 

Howard Wooldridge: (48:03)
Right. 

Reverend FD Becker: (48:04)
But there's also many more billions that go into the pockets of the DEA and, and the, um, cops and, and, you know, yeah. Probation and prisons and just on down the line Mm-Hmm. that can be utilized elsewhere if we just had the courage to try. Right? 

Howard Wooldridge: (48:24)
Correct. And it just, like I say, at this moment, the only thing we're talking about is marijuana. And, uh, halluc, you know, magic mushrooms, uh, no one, no one at the local, state, federal level I'm aware of touches the macro policy of Dr. A drug war. It just isn't done. And, uh, that's, I mean, I, I, I've been in Congress now for 17 years, and I cannot get anybody to discuss it. You know, we always hoped it leap and now with cops that we could spark a discussion on a presidential campaign. And I went up to New Hampshire for a week in 2020, and the Pete Buttigieg had a good answer, the best, by the way. He was very close to, uh, my, uh, our position. Uh, especially he would end the drug war and stop putting regular citizens in, in, in, not only, not in jail, but also still give him a criminal record. He was ready for total decrim of simple possession. But, uh, he was an outlier, and of course, he didn't make it. And Joe Biden, uh, and everybody else is just too much of a dinosaur, and they're just gonna have to die off or leave, leave the office. 

Reverend FD Becker: (49:33)
Alright, friends, once again, we've been speaking with Mr. Howard Wooldridge of, uh, law enforcement against Prohibition, uh, founder of, uh, law Enforcement Action Partnership. And, uh, now heads up, uh, cops, uh, tell us about your organization, Howard. 

Howard Wooldridge: (49:48)
Yeah, I, I was founded in, uh, 2009 to continue to have a, a law enforcement voice in the Congress. I've been doing it ever since. Uh, we, we do take donations, citizens opposing prohibition.org. And by the way, if you're interested in that Swiss program for yourself or a loved one, uh, please go to that, that website, citizens opposing prohibition.org and click on international, and you'll see the six minute summary of the Swiss program, which has just been approved by the Swiss government for distribution in 2025. Um, and if you have any questions, I can answer 'em. Uh, I'd be happy to do that because, uh, I'm out here to save, save lives, number one. And then also, uh, as I said, I wanna protect you and your family better by not chasing drug dealers. I'd rather chase, chase and arrest pedophiles, which I used to do. 

Reverend FD Becker: (50:39)
Thank you. Uh, how educate some of the listeners out there. I don't get paid for this, this I just passed my 10000th show I do in this regard, because I believe in this. I believe it's necessary, uh, to educate and embolden you. Because when you start contacting your legislators, when you start demanding, they evaluate the Swiss program, or that they pull their heads from their posterior and look at all the lives being lost for what? Because we're afraid people are going to die. It's, it is insane. It's absurd. It's bass wards. It, it makes no sense at all. This drug war is, is a fiasco from any direction you wanna look at it, except for those who are pocketing the billions of dollars. And now these cartels have trillions have, have received trillions of dollars which they use to bribe and, um, to murder those who stand in their way. 

Reverend FD Becker: (51:42)
I think that criminals, uh, and they have allies in Congress that, uh, you know, maybe there's a big check gets written to, I don't know, let's just an example. Ted Cruz believe in the drug war and, uh, you know, tout the need to keep, continue this forever because the drug war, uh, the drug cartels need people like Ted Cruz to stand in the way of progress. They need these politicians to, uh, you know, be a bulwark against change, because, oh my God, people might get their hands on these drugs. These drugs are available, they're used millions of times every day right here in the United States. And yet we we're afraid that, you know, people will mess up. Um, you know, we, we gotta wrap up here soon. I, I just, you know, I, I'm gonna keep doing this, uh, into next year, I suppose. But, uh, you know, at 76 years of age and 10,000 shows, um, it, it, it gets to be, I don't know, nearly enough, I'll put it that way, that I appreciate those who have listened over the years. 

Reverend FD Becker: (52:47)
I do get, uh, a lot of support, uh, in person. Mostly people hear my voice say, Hey, you're the guy on the radio. Yes, I am that guy. But, uh, I wanna remind you once again that because of prohibition, you don't know what's in that bag. And I urge you to please be careful and, uh, always remember that euphoria is a blessing, not a crime. As the Reverend Most High, I consider it my job to teach you the choir to sing solos. We bring you the complete unvarnished truth about the drug war and find there is no one in law enforcement willing, daring to attempt to refute what we present here. Please help to expose the abomination of this drug war. Until next time, this is Dean Becker, the Reverend Most High, claiming the moral high ground.