Brian Vicente of Sensible Colorado, Gary Johnson former Gov of N. Mexico, Steve Fox of Marijuana Policy Project + Ethan Nadelmann on Real Time w/Bill Maher
DEAN BECKER: The failure of Drug War is glaringly obvious to judges, cops, wardens, prosecutors and millions more. Now calling for decriminalization, legalization, the end of prohibition. Let us investigate the Century of Lies.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: Ah yes, indeed, this is Century of Lies. I’m Dean Becker. We’re going to go ahead and jump right in and bring in our guest, Mr. Brian Vicente. He heads up Sensible Colorado. I’ll let him tell us what that’s all about. Brian, are you there sir?
BRIAN VICENTE: I am. Thanks for having me on. Sensible Colorado is a non-profit. We’ve been around since 2004 working in the state of Colorado to reform our drug laws particularly our marijuana laws. We’ve got a lot of exciting stuff on the horizon for the next year or two.
DEAN BECKER: Now let’s talk about some of that stuff on the horizon. Colorado is not alone in its efforts to bring forward tax and regulate and treat it like alcohol. I don’t know - legalize it outright - I think in some states they’re looking at. It’s an issue whose time has come. Focus is coming to bear on this change, is it not?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, absolutely. Colorado is really leading the way but some other states are working on this as well. What we’re looking to do in Colorado is we’re actually collecting signatures to place an initiative on the ballot, right?! Right now would be to add an amendment to our state constitution and allow people to vote in 2012, the presidential election, to regulate marijuana like alcohol in the state of Colorado. So it would be a state-wide system. The Department of Revenue would be tasked with licensing the growers as well as the distributors and we would have, you know, retail store front shops that are highly regulated and taxed and would sell marijuana to adults 21 and over.
Our measure also will allow adults to have up to an ounce and also to grow up to 6 plants in an enclosed, locked facility in their home. Communities could opt out if they want to from having these retail marijuana stores but we really think it’s the right thing for Colorado. It’s polling above 50% now to move towards this system of regulation and we really think it could be an excellent thing in terms of bringing in a tax revenue and also using scarce law enforcement resources more responsibly and targeting more serious crime.
DEAN BECKER: Yeah, isn’t that the truth. I mean we live in a society that thrives on fear these days, you know, all kinds of ways that they, in my opinion, circumvent the constitutional rights at the airport and out on the streets and in our own homes in many cases. And yet, I think, I don’t mean to be a nay-sayer here…you talk about 6 plants. Is that an indoor grow?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yes, that would be an indoor grow in a locked facility inside someone’s home and they have to be 21-years or older.
DEAN BECKER: OK, now this is a good start. I think it’s an excellent beginning. Now I want to talk about, you know…for many years the focus has been on medical marijuana and I’m all for it. I think…I know that it does benefit many people who otherwise might be left with these more dangerous narcotics, if you will, to treat their maladies. But this effort in Colorado and some other states now are going to go for adult users – doesn’t necessarily have to be medical, right?
BRIAN VICENTE: That’s correct. We, Colorado, is one of 16 states that does have medical marijuana laws. We’ve had ours since 2000 and really it’s been functioning pretty well.
What we’ve seen in the last couple years is emergence of medical marijuana dispensaries and there’s about 800 of these retail medical marijuana shops around the state of Colorado. They’re paying taxes, they’re contributing to the community and they haven’t led to any increased law enforcement problems. And so the people of Colorado, I think, can wrap their heads around the fact that we can regulate marijuana safely and we know that many adults 21 and over use it so why not tax that product, bring it into the regulated system and allow the state to benefit from that tax revenue.
DEAN BECKER: You know I’ve been to the Denver area. I think three times in the last 2 years and I have seen…well, maybe 5 times in the last 5 years…but, I have seen, over that timeframe a change in the attitude, the fact that people are less paranoid, to be honest. That the law is working. The system is in place and it’s functioning, as you say, without the increased crime or need for police involvement – though they still do in the rural areas, do they not?
BRIAN VICENTE: We do see, you know, there’s a lot of rural areas that don’t have dispensaries…some do…but, in addition to the community safety issue, I mean, this really has brought in millions and millions of dollars for the state in terms of tax revenue. You know, at the city and state level. And, it’s also brought in an estimated 12,000 new jobs to the state. I know a lot of folks in this industry and they tend to pay pretty well. The people at these stores are making a living wage and it really has been a positive thing for the economy of Colorado.
DEAN BECKER: Yeah, and I look at it like this. You know, it is the industry, the marijuana industry, that wants these regulations, that wants some control, that wants to pay an appropriate amount of tax to not just legitimize but to get on with life. That it is not creating the other problems that you were speaking of, right?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, we really don’t see any violence related to marijuana. What we see, unfortunately and because of the drug war and because of the prohibition of marijuana, we do see some marijuana-related violence in Mexico and so forth because the U.S. has a great appetite for marijuana and the cartels are bringing that into our country. Really, if we could seize control of marijuana production, have it be strongly and strictly regulated by the state – there’d be no more cartels.
And, we don’t see people producing alcohol and all the violence that was related to that prohibition in the 20’s and 30’s. Once we moved alcohol behind the counter and said adults 21 and over can purchase this – all that violence went away. We think the same thing would happen with Mexican cartels if we were to take a more sensible approach and regulate this product.
DEAN BECKER: The word sensible…that’s kind of been the focal point for all of these efforts – most of these efforts. I look at it this way, the truth of this matter is becoming…I’m not going to just say more widely known, but more widely embraced by more people who are finally saying, “OK, I’ll go along with this. I believe it now. I’ve heard enough.”
The propaganda war, the hysteria, you know, that comes from the ONDCP and so forth, is losing its sting as well. They can no longer talk about the Dutch or these European countries as being off track when they use less drugs than we do.
BRIAN VICENTE: That’s absolutely true and I think a lot of the blinds are coming off the American public. Once you’ve had a family member or friend who has used medical marijuana and you’ve seen it help them through a difficult time – they’ve had cancer or what not – you begin to think twice about this substance.
You know marijuana has been used for recreational and therapeutic uses for over 10,000 years and now it’s happening in 16 states legally and I think people are saying, “Now listen this actually doesn’t harm people that use it.” And I’m not saying teens or young people should use it. We need to use it in a responsible fashion for adults but once they’ve seen it work medically they’re beginning to question the lies that the ONDCP has been telling them. That his is an evil drug, that this going to destroy their lives and make them rape women or whatever these reefer madness, John Walters, Gil Kerlikowske guys are saying these days.
And, I think people are really thinking twice. It’s good to see the states kind of take the lead on this one.
DEAN BECKER: It’s been now probably three or four years ago that John Walters made a statement something to the effect that marijuana has become so potent that it’s now the equivalent of crack cocaine. I don’t think that does anything to legitimize their stance. Your thought.
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, that’s just laughable. And really, if the government would just stop focusing their law enforcement resources on chasing down responsible adults…we’re talking about 900,000 people a year approximately in our country alone arrested for marijuana possession. The really would be able to sustain more credibility I think and focus on drugs that cause more damage to the individual and the user, methamphetamine and what not. I think, generally, people need treatment if they use those drugs. But, folks that spend all this money and all this miseducation on marijuana has really led to a credibility problem with the federal government.
DEAN BECKER: On my show Cultural Baggage I do a segment called, “Name that drug by its side effect”, and this week it was gasoline. I actually used a segment that was produced by the Partnership for a Drug-Free America because I thought in that one instance they had got it right and it’s important to warn children of the problems, the potential dangers and threats and I think that’s what they should be about and not just throwing this marijuana propaganda against the wall and hoping it will stick.
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah. If you’re told that marijuana is a Schedule I substance, it’s more dangerous than heroin and, of course, every teenager, college kids try marijuana and realize that’s not true. They start to question everything they were taught in their DARE class and that could possibly lead them to try other, more dangerous drugs.
In terms of just addressing the youth issue, I mean, our campaign is going to do this head on. We firmly believe that if you move marijuana out of the streets and behind the counter, it’s going to be much more difficult for teens to and youth to access and that’s a good thing. We really don’t need our teens using marijuana. We need to get it behind the counter and treat it like alcohol.
National surveys consistently show that it’s easier for teens to get marijuana than alcohol and that’s because drug dealers don’t ID. They’re not asking the person for an identification and they do that for alcohol and that makes it a lot more difficult to access. So, we really just need to, for many, many reasons – including making our society safer and decreasing youth access – just move this behind the counter and regulate it.
DEAN BECKER: OK. Friends, once again, we’re speaking with Mr. Brian Vicente. He’s with Sensible Colorado. Brian, I wanted to ask you, you know, you hear…I don’t know, seems like it’s on a 6 or 10-month cycle…The government or some agency will release a report talking about the increased potency, the danger of marijuana. And, the truth of the matter is the potency…you know…out there in the general populace, the fact of the matter is nobody really knows what is in that bag – they don’t know the potency, they don’t know which strain, they don’t know except what they’re being told.
Now, at these dispensaries there is more of a guarantee of the origin of that marijuana, the potency, the content and a person can buy it with more confidence then under prohibition, right?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, that’s absolutely true. I serve on the Colorado State Marijuana Oversight Panel and we develop rules for this burgeoning industry. I sit on this panel and we meet every couple weeks. It consists of police officers, prosecutors, government officials, industry folks (medical marijuana store owners) and then advocates like myself. We come up with rules for this industry that make sense and we are quickly moving towards more common sense labelings so people will know what they’re purchasing and I think before long we’re going to have mandated THC levels, “is this Indica? Is this Sativa?” and I think that’s the way we’re going. Consumers need to know what it is they are ingesting. That’s what we do for every other substance in our society – be it bread or alcohol. I believe that would be a very positive thing about the regulation of marijuana .
DEAN BECKER: Let’s talk about the Institute of Medicine report said, “There’s some indications that there’s some benefits in the component parts...but marijuana itself – Oh no.” And, I want to come back to that these dispensaries also have edibles, candies and cakes and various cookies and brownies, whatever, that make it possible to not smoke the marijuana but still get many of the same benefits. And then there’s even the vaporizer, which guess now there are dozens of them on the market, which eliminate most of the harshness of the smoke (90-some % of it) and still allow the person access to the medicine, your response, Mr. Brian Vicente.
BRIAN VICENTE: I think we’re seeing people smoke marijuana less and less. It is worth noting that you’re looking at getting lung cancer by smoking marijuana – it’s more of an irritant as opposed to a carcinogenic substance. But, more and more people are looking for sort of a cleaner, less irritating way to consume marijuana and a lot of people are turning to vaporizers, especially for the patient population. They are critically ill and it doesn’t make sense for them to smoke a cigarette or a joint. So, more and more patients are turning to edibles, be it brownies or cookies, but also tinctures and we’re seeing suppositories and skin patches, lotions – all sorts of things that help people with a vast variety of conditions and I think that’s a good thing.
DEAN BECKER: In my case, I live in Texas and I’m sad to say that I too often smoke the cartel weed but when I do encounter the higher grades it does tend to buckle my knees and I found that some of the extremely high grades almost intolerable. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be on the market, I’m just saying that you ought to know what’s in the bag before you smoke it.
But, secondarily, I’m saying that there is a level, I’m saying maybe 10%, that would be proper for me. That’s what I’d look for there were a legal market. We got about 2 minutes here. Brian, your response.
BRIAN VICENTE: I think that’s true. Some people like hard liquor. Some people like beer. Some people like wine coolers. People are the same way with marijuana. Some people want a stronger dose some people want a less does and they should be able to know.
So I would encourage folks to check out http//regulatemarijuana.org – that’s our campaign website. I think we’ve got a wonderful chance of winning this in November 2012. We’re already…our campaign’s in full motion. We have a great team assembled. So, if people want to check us out, maybe donate, get in touch to help out and read more about the campaign. Send us your thoughts. We really think we can do this and we need everyone’s help to win this thing.
DEAN BECKER: I want to think about this for a moment. The fact that Colorado, California, maybe Washington state, maybe some of the east coast states – who knows…there are efforts under way to bring this issue to the fore. There are efforts to force these politicians to deal with it because behind closed doors, I think 90% of these politicians know this drug war is a failure, know that they need to do something – they’re just afraid to speak up for fear of the fallout from that action, your thoughts.
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, I think the people are leading the way on this issue. We’re going to see a number of statewide ballots, statewide votes in 2012…Washington, California probably, Colorado certainly. We’re also going to see medical marijuana in probably a number of states including Ohio so I think people are leading the way.
But it’s worth noting that some politicians have really stepped out and are beginning to lead on this. We have U.S. Congressman Jared Polis from Colorado who has been outspoken that he supports medical marijuana and legalization. We also have Ron Paul from your state of Texas. So, some of the politicians are getting wind of what’s the right thing to do on this issue.
DEAN BECKER: Ok. And, on last time I want to remind folks that we’ve been speaking to Mr. Brian Vicente. He’s with Sensible Colorado. Brian, would you, once again, like to point out that website where folks can get involved.
BRIAN VICENTE: Sure. http://regulatemarijuana.org. Check it out. It’s a beautiful website. We spent a lot of time on it and I think it’s really snazzy. We also have the facebook link so all you kids can get on there and I think we’re getting close to 1,000 friends or likes on there and we just launched the campaign last week so things are taking off and please check out http://regulatemarijuana.org today.
DEAN BECKER: Thank you, Brian.
BRIAN VICENTE: Thank you.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: The following is courtesy of CNN. The speaker, former governor of New Mexico, Republican candidate for president, Gary Johnson.
GARY JOHNSON: If you look at the only two countries in the world, Portugal and Holland, which have rational drug policy, each of those countries has 60% the drug use of that of the United States. That’s on a per capita basis but that’s kids, that’s adults and that’s marijuana and that’s hard drugs. So that kind of flies in the face of what you would think would be increased drug use.
Portugal, 10 years ago decriminalized all drug use because they had a heroin epidemic. And, over the last 10 years they’ve shown a 50% decrease in heroin use having decriminalized heroin. What they’re doing is looking at the problem first as a health issue rather than a criminal justice issue.
Look, there have been millions of Americans that have gone to jail for drugs. There have been 100 million who haven’t gone to jail because of the same offences but haven’t been caught doing that. There’s a real hypocrisy in our drug laws. They are very discriminatory. Half of what we spend on law enforcement, the courts and the prisons is drug related and what are we getting for it? Well, we have 2.3 million people behind bars. We have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world.
When it comes to drugs, I’ll just get back to the fact… half of what we spend on law enforcement and the prisons is drug related. Here it is never going to be legal to smoke pot, get behind the wheel of a car or do harm to others. It is never going to be legal for kids to smoke pot or buy pot. But, the situation we have today, right now, is that we’re arresting and we’re sending to jail people who sale small amounts of drugs on numerous occasions and they’re getting caught for that.
This is much the same as prohibition of alcohol in the 20s. Who got rich in the 20s? Border violence with Mexico. Look this is a prohibition phenomenon. Legalize marijuana and arguably 75% of the border violence with Mexico goes away because these are disputes that are being played out with guns rather than the courts.
-----------------------
[music]
DEAN BECKER: Darth Drug Czar…you’re a coward, a liar, demon and thief. Seems you can’t face the truth for just one hour…too busy looking at peeeee…
Dean Becker, DrugTruth.net.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: The following is courtesy of HBO.
BILL MAHER: Ethan Nadelmann is here…Ethan.
[applause]
BILL MAHER: Now, what is your job? The head of the Drug Policy Alliance? People want to know right off the bat…are you high right now?
ETHAN NADELMANN: Not at this moment.
BILL MAHER: Because you’re not even a big partaker, are you?
ETHAN NADELMANN: You know, occasionally. Like when I turn you on. But, apart from that…
BILL MAHER: But, this is serious business with you. You are a drug warrior and I mean that on the good guy side. You’ve been doing this for a long time and I have a feeling…I wanted to have you on now because maybe the tide is turning. Do you feel that after a lot of years working against the wind that it may be at your back?
ETHAN NADELMANN: It feels like it’s turning that way. It really does. Let’s face it, it’s a long-term struggle and in some ways it is a multi-generational struggle. It started in some ways back in the 60s and then you get into the 90s. But, right now, support for legalizing of marijuana is rising incredibly rapidly, almost as fast as public opinion is changing on issues like gay marriage…
[applause]
BILL MAHER: Because one other reason I wanted to have you on because last month…of course there’s been a million studies, but this one seemed to me a little different. It was called the Global Commission on Drug Policy. It was people like George Shultz. Who was he, Ford’s…
ETHAN NADELMANN: Actually, he was the secretary of almost everything.
BILL MAHER: Right. Under many Republicans so he’s not exactly a hippie. And Kofi Annan and a number of presidents were part of this and Paul Volcker. And these people all said, of course, like all the reports say, “It’s not working. Let’s try something else.” But, they said something else which I thought was great which I’ve never heard. “Public officials should say publically what they always say privately.” The hypocrisy on this issue is mind boggling.
ETHAN NADELMANN: Exactly.
BILL MAHER: They’ve always said it…right after the show ends…believe me….i have it in the green room with a scotch in their hand, “Yeah, I think we should legalize drugs.” But they won’t say it publically. Do you think that’s changing?
ETHAN NADELMANN: Look, with that commission, never before has such a distinguished group of individuals endorsed such far-reaching recommendations. So, you’re right, part of what they said was, “break the taboo”. Right? Open up the debate. We all acknowledge the failure. They represent, essentially, the tip of the iceberg. They actually said things like, “Nobody should be going to prison for simple drug use or possession if they’re not hurting anybody else.”
They said we need to consider and allow countries to move forward with legalizing marijuana if they think that’s what right for them and even to experiment with other types of regulation.
They said that human rights can’t be abandoned in the name of the drug war. They said we need to focus on reducing disease like AIDS and Hepatitis and that rather than just focusing on reducing drug use. So it’s a very bold…
[applause]
-----------------------
[music]
DEAN BECKER: We all love Big Brother. He protects us from the evil one. Bow down to Big Brother – to his satellites and guns. We need him and adore him. Freedom is so over-rated.
-----------------------
STEVE FOX: This is Steve Fox, Government Regulations at the Marijuana Policy Project.
DEAN BECKER: The Marijuana Policy Project has one idea on how to quash the government effort. Why don’t you tell us about that.
STEVE FOX: Our most recent alert which is related to an amendment being introduced by representatives Jared Polis and Ron Paul. What it would do is basically defund the Office of Drug Control Policy which is the Drug Czar’s office. This office for the 20 years since it was established has served essentially served one purpose which is to spread lies and propaganda primarily about marijuana. And, it’s been government-funded or taxpayer-funded boondoggle from the beginning, including more than a billion dollars spent on anti-drug media campaign. And, it’s really time to eliminate the office entirely.
DEAN BECKER: You know, if you reach back to the decades before that it was the Federal Bureau of Narcotics…one Harry J. Anslinger very much in charge of that. It’s just been propaganda machine, has it not?
STEVE FOX: Yeah, it really has. And the truth is, as you mentioned, with Anslinger and as we’ve seen, unfortunately lately, with Eric Holder and the attorneys around the country, there’s no shortage of members of the federal government who are quite capable of spreading their own propaganda. We don’t need to be funding an entirely separate office solely for the purpose of spreading propaganda.
DEAN BECKER: And let’s talk about some of the latest bits of information that’s been circulating. One, the DEA has denied an attempt to reschedule marijuana. At the same time they’re responsible for a seminar and dissemination of information about how they might better use the component parts of marijuana as a medicine, correct?
STEVE FOX: One on hand they most definitely denied the existence of there being any medical benefits to marijuana with their denial of the rescheduling petition last week but, yes, in a number of ways they acknowledge the medical benefits of at least the components of marijuana as they have a proposed notice of rule-making pending right now where they’re trying to reschedule THC, natural THC, as a schedule III substance.
DEAN BECKER: Once again we’re speaking with Mr. Steve Fox. He’s a co-author of “Marijuana is Safer so Why Are We Driving People to Drink?” He’s also Director of Government Relations for the Marijuana Policy Project. Now, Steve, I know that MPP has an effort underway to defund the Drug Czar’s office. How can people get involved with that?
STEVE FOX: They can visit our website, http://mpp.org and take action. Send an email to their member of congress. The more emails that are sent – the better. We are hopeful that a number of members of congress will be supportive of this. They recently, the House, in a recent appropriations debate, defunded the National Drug Intelligence Center which was actually more money than is involved here. And, we hope they’ll see the folly of the office and choose to defund it.
DEAN BECKER: What will it take to motivate? Please visit DrugTruth.net
Freedom is so overrated
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: I want to thank you so much for being with us on Century of Lies. I want to thank Brian Vicente of Sensible Colorado for being with us.
You know the recent push to decriminalize, medicalize, legalize drugs, especially marijuana has picked up steam worldwide. These drug prohibition reform efforts, while motivated by the massive harms caused by prohibition, are incomplete remedies is limited to just criminal justice reform. A major aspect of prohibition’s harm is economic and among the remedies which reform needs to include is financial relief for prohibition’s victims. I think that should be an important part of what we do here in the near future.
I want to thank all the good folks who participated to today’s program. And, as always, I remind you there’s no truth, no logic, no reason for this drug war to exist. Please visit our website http://endprohibition.org. Prohibido istac evilesco!
-----------------------
For the Drug Truth Network, this is Dean Becker. Asking you to examine our policy of Drug Prohibition.
The Century of Lies.
This show produced at Pacifica Studios at KPFT, Houston.
Transcript
Transcript
Century of Lies / July 17, 2011
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: The failure of Drug War is glaringly obvious to judges, cops, wardens, prosecutors and millions more. Now calling for decriminalization, legalization, the end of prohibition. Let us investigate the Century of Lies.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: Ah yes, indeed, this is Century of Lies. I’m Dean Becker. We’re going to go ahead and jump right in and bring in our guest, Mr. Brian Vicente. He heads up Sensible Colorado. I’ll let him tell us what that’s all about. Brian, are you there sir?
BRIAN VICENTE: I am. Thanks for having me on. Sensible Colorado is a non-profit. We’ve been around since 2004 working in the state of Colorado to reform our drug laws particularly our marijuana laws. We’ve got a lot of exciting stuff on the horizon for the next year or two.
DEAN BECKER: Now let’s talk about some of that stuff on the horizon. Colorado is not alone in its efforts to bring forward tax and regulate and treat it like alcohol. I don’t know - legalize it outright - I think in some states they’re looking at. It’s an issue whose time has come. Focus is coming to bear on this change, is it not?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, absolutely. Colorado is really leading the way but some other states are working on this as well. What we’re looking to do in Colorado is we’re actually collecting signatures to place an initiative on the ballot, right?! Right now would be to add an amendment to our state constitution and allow people to vote in 2012, the presidential election, to regulate marijuana like alcohol in the state of Colorado. So it would be a state-wide system. The Department of Revenue would be tasked with licensing the growers as well as the distributors and we would have, you know, retail store front shops that are highly regulated and taxed and would sell marijuana to adults 21 and over.
Our measure also will allow adults to have up to an ounce and also to grow up to 6 plants in an enclosed, locked facility in their home. Communities could opt out if they want to from having these retail marijuana stores but we really think it’s the right thing for Colorado. It’s polling above 50% now to move towards this system of regulation and we really think it could be an excellent thing in terms of bringing in a tax revenue and also using scarce law enforcement resources more responsibly and targeting more serious crime.
DEAN BECKER: Yeah, isn’t that the truth. I mean we live in a society that thrives on fear these days, you know, all kinds of ways that they, in my opinion, circumvent the constitutional rights at the airport and out on the streets and in our own homes in many cases. And yet, I think, I don’t mean to be a nay-sayer here…you talk about 6 plants. Is that an indoor grow?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yes, that would be an indoor grow in a locked facility inside someone’s home and they have to be 21-years or older.
DEAN BECKER: OK, now this is a good start. I think it’s an excellent beginning. Now I want to talk about, you know…for many years the focus has been on medical marijuana and I’m all for it. I think…I know that it does benefit many people who otherwise might be left with these more dangerous narcotics, if you will, to treat their maladies. But this effort in Colorado and some other states now are going to go for adult users – doesn’t necessarily have to be medical, right?
BRIAN VICENTE: That’s correct. We, Colorado, is one of 16 states that does have medical marijuana laws. We’ve had ours since 2000 and really it’s been functioning pretty well.
What we’ve seen in the last couple years is emergence of medical marijuana dispensaries and there’s about 800 of these retail medical marijuana shops around the state of Colorado. They’re paying taxes, they’re contributing to the community and they haven’t led to any increased law enforcement problems. And so the people of Colorado, I think, can wrap their heads around the fact that we can regulate marijuana safely and we know that many adults 21 and over use it so why not tax that product, bring it into the regulated system and allow the state to benefit from that tax revenue.
DEAN BECKER: You know I’ve been to the Denver area. I think three times in the last 2 years and I have seen…well, maybe 5 times in the last 5 years…but, I have seen, over that timeframe a change in the attitude, the fact that people are less paranoid, to be honest. That the law is working. The system is in place and it’s functioning, as you say, without the increased crime or need for police involvement – though they still do in the rural areas, do they not?
BRIAN VICENTE: We do see, you know, there’s a lot of rural areas that don’t have dispensaries…some do…but, in addition to the community safety issue, I mean, this really has brought in millions and millions of dollars for the state in terms of tax revenue. You know, at the city and state level. And, it’s also brought in an estimated 12,000 new jobs to the state. I know a lot of folks in this industry and they tend to pay pretty well. The people at these stores are making a living wage and it really has been a positive thing for the economy of Colorado.
DEAN BECKER: Yeah, and I look at it like this. You know, it is the industry, the marijuana industry, that wants these regulations, that wants some control, that wants to pay an appropriate amount of tax to not just legitimize but to get on with life. That it is not creating the other problems that you were speaking of, right?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, we really don’t see any violence related to marijuana. What we see, unfortunately and because of the drug war and because of the prohibition of marijuana, we do see some marijuana-related violence in Mexico and so forth because the U.S. has a great appetite for marijuana and the cartels are bringing that into our country. Really, if we could seize control of marijuana production, have it be strongly and strictly regulated by the state – there’d be no more cartels.
And, we don’t see people producing alcohol and all the violence that was related to that prohibition in the 20’s and 30’s. Once we moved alcohol behind the counter and said adults 21 and over can purchase this – all that violence went away. We think the same thing would happen with Mexican cartels if we were to take a more sensible approach and regulate this product.
DEAN BECKER: The word sensible…that’s kind of been the focal point for all of these efforts – most of these efforts. I look at it this way, the truth of this matter is becoming…I’m not going to just say more widely known, but more widely embraced by more people who are finally saying, “OK, I’ll go along with this. I believe it now. I’ve heard enough.”
The propaganda war, the hysteria, you know, that comes from the ONDCP and so forth, is losing its sting as well. They can no longer talk about the Dutch or these European countries as being off track when they use less drugs than we do.
BRIAN VICENTE: That’s absolutely true and I think a lot of the blinds are coming off the American public. Once you’ve had a family member or friend who has used medical marijuana and you’ve seen it help them through a difficult time – they’ve had cancer or what not – you begin to think twice about this substance.
You know marijuana has been used for recreational and therapeutic uses for over 10,000 years and now it’s happening in 16 states legally and I think people are saying, “Now listen this actually doesn’t harm people that use it.” And I’m not saying teens or young people should use it. We need to use it in a responsible fashion for adults but once they’ve seen it work medically they’re beginning to question the lies that the ONDCP has been telling them. That his is an evil drug, that this going to destroy their lives and make them rape women or whatever these reefer madness, John Walters, Gil Kerlikowske guys are saying these days.
And, I think people are really thinking twice. It’s good to see the states kind of take the lead on this one.
DEAN BECKER: It’s been now probably three or four years ago that John Walters made a statement something to the effect that marijuana has become so potent that it’s now the equivalent of crack cocaine. I don’t think that does anything to legitimize their stance. Your thought.
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, that’s just laughable. And really, if the government would just stop focusing their law enforcement resources on chasing down responsible adults…we’re talking about 900,000 people a year approximately in our country alone arrested for marijuana possession. The really would be able to sustain more credibility I think and focus on drugs that cause more damage to the individual and the user, methamphetamine and what not. I think, generally, people need treatment if they use those drugs. But, folks that spend all this money and all this miseducation on marijuana has really led to a credibility problem with the federal government.
DEAN BECKER: On my show Cultural Baggage I do a segment called, “Name that drug by its side effect”, and this week it was gasoline. I actually used a segment that was produced by the Partnership for a Drug-Free America because I thought in that one instance they had got it right and it’s important to warn children of the problems, the potential dangers and threats and I think that’s what they should be about and not just throwing this marijuana propaganda against the wall and hoping it will stick.
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah. If you’re told that marijuana is a Schedule I substance, it’s more dangerous than heroin and, of course, every teenager, college kids try marijuana and realize that’s not true. They start to question everything they were taught in their DARE class and that could possibly lead them to try other, more dangerous drugs.
In terms of just addressing the youth issue, I mean, our campaign is going to do this head on. We firmly believe that if you move marijuana out of the streets and behind the counter, it’s going to be much more difficult for teens to and youth to access and that’s a good thing. We really don’t need our teens using marijuana. We need to get it behind the counter and treat it like alcohol.
National surveys consistently show that it’s easier for teens to get marijuana than alcohol and that’s because drug dealers don’t ID. They’re not asking the person for an identification and they do that for alcohol and that makes it a lot more difficult to access. So, we really just need to, for many, many reasons – including making our society safer and decreasing youth access – just move this behind the counter and regulate it.
DEAN BECKER: OK. Friends, once again, we’re speaking with Mr. Brian Vicente. He’s with Sensible Colorado. Brian, I wanted to ask you, you know, you hear…I don’t know, seems like it’s on a 6 or 10-month cycle…The government or some agency will release a report talking about the increased potency, the danger of marijuana. And, the truth of the matter is the potency…you know…out there in the general populace, the fact of the matter is nobody really knows what is in that bag – they don’t know the potency, they don’t know which strain, they don’t know except what they’re being told.
Now, at these dispensaries there is more of a guarantee of the origin of that marijuana, the potency, the content and a person can buy it with more confidence then under prohibition, right?
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, that’s absolutely true. I serve on the Colorado State Marijuana Oversight Panel and we develop rules for this burgeoning industry. I sit on this panel and we meet every couple weeks. It consists of police officers, prosecutors, government officials, industry folks (medical marijuana store owners) and then advocates like myself. We come up with rules for this industry that make sense and we are quickly moving towards more common sense labelings so people will know what they’re purchasing and I think before long we’re going to have mandated THC levels, “is this Indica? Is this Sativa?” and I think that’s the way we’re going. Consumers need to know what it is they are ingesting. That’s what we do for every other substance in our society – be it bread or alcohol. I believe that would be a very positive thing about the regulation of marijuana .
DEAN BECKER: Let’s talk about the Institute of Medicine report said, “There’s some indications that there’s some benefits in the component parts...but marijuana itself – Oh no.” And, I want to come back to that these dispensaries also have edibles, candies and cakes and various cookies and brownies, whatever, that make it possible to not smoke the marijuana but still get many of the same benefits. And then there’s even the vaporizer, which guess now there are dozens of them on the market, which eliminate most of the harshness of the smoke (90-some % of it) and still allow the person access to the medicine, your response, Mr. Brian Vicente.
BRIAN VICENTE: I think we’re seeing people smoke marijuana less and less. It is worth noting that you’re looking at getting lung cancer by smoking marijuana – it’s more of an irritant as opposed to a carcinogenic substance. But, more and more people are looking for sort of a cleaner, less irritating way to consume marijuana and a lot of people are turning to vaporizers, especially for the patient population. They are critically ill and it doesn’t make sense for them to smoke a cigarette or a joint. So, more and more patients are turning to edibles, be it brownies or cookies, but also tinctures and we’re seeing suppositories and skin patches, lotions – all sorts of things that help people with a vast variety of conditions and I think that’s a good thing.
DEAN BECKER: In my case, I live in Texas and I’m sad to say that I too often smoke the cartel weed but when I do encounter the higher grades it does tend to buckle my knees and I found that some of the extremely high grades almost intolerable. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be on the market, I’m just saying that you ought to know what’s in the bag before you smoke it.
But, secondarily, I’m saying that there is a level, I’m saying maybe 10%, that would be proper for me. That’s what I’d look for there were a legal market. We got about 2 minutes here. Brian, your response.
BRIAN VICENTE: I think that’s true. Some people like hard liquor. Some people like beer. Some people like wine coolers. People are the same way with marijuana. Some people want a stronger dose some people want a less does and they should be able to know.
So I would encourage folks to check out http//regulatemarijuana.org – that’s our campaign website. I think we’ve got a wonderful chance of winning this in November 2012. We’re already…our campaign’s in full motion. We have a great team assembled. So, if people want to check us out, maybe donate, get in touch to help out and read more about the campaign. Send us your thoughts. We really think we can do this and we need everyone’s help to win this thing.
DEAN BECKER: I want to think about this for a moment. The fact that Colorado, California, maybe Washington state, maybe some of the east coast states – who knows…there are efforts under way to bring this issue to the fore. There are efforts to force these politicians to deal with it because behind closed doors, I think 90% of these politicians know this drug war is a failure, know that they need to do something – they’re just afraid to speak up for fear of the fallout from that action, your thoughts.
BRIAN VICENTE: Yeah, I think the people are leading the way on this issue. We’re going to see a number of statewide ballots, statewide votes in 2012…Washington, California probably, Colorado certainly. We’re also going to see medical marijuana in probably a number of states including Ohio so I think people are leading the way.
But it’s worth noting that some politicians have really stepped out and are beginning to lead on this. We have U.S. Congressman Jared Polis from Colorado who has been outspoken that he supports medical marijuana and legalization. We also have Ron Paul from your state of Texas. So, some of the politicians are getting wind of what’s the right thing to do on this issue.
DEAN BECKER: Ok. And, on last time I want to remind folks that we’ve been speaking to Mr. Brian Vicente. He’s with Sensible Colorado. Brian, would you, once again, like to point out that website where folks can get involved.
BRIAN VICENTE: Sure. http://regulatemarijuana.org. Check it out. It’s a beautiful website. We spent a lot of time on it and I think it’s really snazzy. We also have the facebook link so all you kids can get on there and I think we’re getting close to 1,000 friends or likes on there and we just launched the campaign last week so things are taking off and please check out http://regulatemarijuana.org today.
DEAN BECKER: Thank you, Brian.
BRIAN VICENTE: Thank you.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: The following is courtesy of CNN. The speaker, former governor of New Mexico, Republican candidate for president, Gary Johnson.
GARY JOHNSON: If you look at the only two countries in the world, Portugal and Holland, which have rational drug policy, each of those countries has 60% the drug use of that of the United States. That’s on a per capita basis but that’s kids, that’s adults and that’s marijuana and that’s hard drugs. So that kind of flies in the face of what you would think would be increased drug use.
Portugal, 10 years ago decriminalized all drug use because they had a heroin epidemic. And, over the last 10 years they’ve shown a 50% decrease in heroin use having decriminalized heroin. What they’re doing is looking at the problem first as a health issue rather than a criminal justice issue.
Look, there have been millions of Americans that have gone to jail for drugs. There have been 100 million who haven’t gone to jail because of the same offences but haven’t been caught doing that. There’s a real hypocrisy in our drug laws. They are very discriminatory. Half of what we spend on law enforcement, the courts and the prisons is drug related and what are we getting for it? Well, we have 2.3 million people behind bars. We have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world.
When it comes to drugs, I’ll just get back to the fact… half of what we spend on law enforcement and the prisons is drug related. Here it is never going to be legal to smoke pot, get behind the wheel of a car or do harm to others. It is never going to be legal for kids to smoke pot or buy pot. But, the situation we have today, right now, is that we’re arresting and we’re sending to jail people who sale small amounts of drugs on numerous occasions and they’re getting caught for that.
This is much the same as prohibition of alcohol in the 20s. Who got rich in the 20s? Border violence with Mexico. Look this is a prohibition phenomenon. Legalize marijuana and arguably 75% of the border violence with Mexico goes away because these are disputes that are being played out with guns rather than the courts.
-----------------------
[music]
DEAN BECKER: Darth Drug Czar…you’re a coward, a liar, demon and thief. Seems you can’t face the truth for just one hour…too busy looking at peeeee…
Dean Becker, DrugTruth.net.
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: The following is courtesy of HBO.
BILL MAHER: Ethan Nadelmann is here…Ethan.
[applause]
BILL MAHER: Now, what is your job? The head of the Drug Policy Alliance? People want to know right off the bat…are you high right now?
ETHAN NADELMANN: Not at this moment.
BILL MAHER: Because you’re not even a big partaker, are you?
ETHAN NADELMANN: You know, occasionally. Like when I turn you on. But, apart from that…
BILL MAHER: But, this is serious business with you. You are a drug warrior and I mean that on the good guy side. You’ve been doing this for a long time and I have a feeling…I wanted to have you on now because maybe the tide is turning. Do you feel that after a lot of years working against the wind that it may be at your back?
ETHAN NADELMANN: It feels like it’s turning that way. It really does. Let’s face it, it’s a long-term struggle and in some ways it is a multi-generational struggle. It started in some ways back in the 60s and then you get into the 90s. But, right now, support for legalizing of marijuana is rising incredibly rapidly, almost as fast as public opinion is changing on issues like gay marriage…
[applause]
BILL MAHER: Because one other reason I wanted to have you on because last month…of course there’s been a million studies, but this one seemed to me a little different. It was called the Global Commission on Drug Policy. It was people like George Shultz. Who was he, Ford’s…
ETHAN NADELMANN: Actually, he was the secretary of almost everything.
BILL MAHER: Right. Under many Republicans so he’s not exactly a hippie. And Kofi Annan and a number of presidents were part of this and Paul Volcker. And these people all said, of course, like all the reports say, “It’s not working. Let’s try something else.” But, they said something else which I thought was great which I’ve never heard. “Public officials should say publically what they always say privately.” The hypocrisy on this issue is mind boggling.
ETHAN NADELMANN: Exactly.
BILL MAHER: They’ve always said it…right after the show ends…believe me….i have it in the green room with a scotch in their hand, “Yeah, I think we should legalize drugs.” But they won’t say it publically. Do you think that’s changing?
ETHAN NADELMANN: Look, with that commission, never before has such a distinguished group of individuals endorsed such far-reaching recommendations. So, you’re right, part of what they said was, “break the taboo”. Right? Open up the debate. We all acknowledge the failure. They represent, essentially, the tip of the iceberg. They actually said things like, “Nobody should be going to prison for simple drug use or possession if they’re not hurting anybody else.”
They said we need to consider and allow countries to move forward with legalizing marijuana if they think that’s what right for them and even to experiment with other types of regulation.
They said that human rights can’t be abandoned in the name of the drug war. They said we need to focus on reducing disease like AIDS and Hepatitis and that rather than just focusing on reducing drug use. So it’s a very bold…
[applause]
-----------------------
[music]
DEAN BECKER: We all love Big Brother. He protects us from the evil one. Bow down to Big Brother – to his satellites and guns. We need him and adore him. Freedom is so over-rated.
-----------------------
STEVE FOX: This is Steve Fox, Government Regulations at the Marijuana Policy Project.
DEAN BECKER: The Marijuana Policy Project has one idea on how to quash the government effort. Why don’t you tell us about that.
STEVE FOX: Our most recent alert which is related to an amendment being introduced by representatives Jared Polis and Ron Paul. What it would do is basically defund the Office of Drug Control Policy which is the Drug Czar’s office. This office for the 20 years since it was established has served essentially served one purpose which is to spread lies and propaganda primarily about marijuana. And, it’s been government-funded or taxpayer-funded boondoggle from the beginning, including more than a billion dollars spent on anti-drug media campaign. And, it’s really time to eliminate the office entirely.
DEAN BECKER: You know, if you reach back to the decades before that it was the Federal Bureau of Narcotics…one Harry J. Anslinger very much in charge of that. It’s just been propaganda machine, has it not?
STEVE FOX: Yeah, it really has. And the truth is, as you mentioned, with Anslinger and as we’ve seen, unfortunately lately, with Eric Holder and the attorneys around the country, there’s no shortage of members of the federal government who are quite capable of spreading their own propaganda. We don’t need to be funding an entirely separate office solely for the purpose of spreading propaganda.
DEAN BECKER: And let’s talk about some of the latest bits of information that’s been circulating. One, the DEA has denied an attempt to reschedule marijuana. At the same time they’re responsible for a seminar and dissemination of information about how they might better use the component parts of marijuana as a medicine, correct?
STEVE FOX: One on hand they most definitely denied the existence of there being any medical benefits to marijuana with their denial of the rescheduling petition last week but, yes, in a number of ways they acknowledge the medical benefits of at least the components of marijuana as they have a proposed notice of rule-making pending right now where they’re trying to reschedule THC, natural THC, as a schedule III substance.
DEAN BECKER: Once again we’re speaking with Mr. Steve Fox. He’s a co-author of “Marijuana is Safer so Why Are We Driving People to Drink?” He’s also Director of Government Relations for the Marijuana Policy Project. Now, Steve, I know that MPP has an effort underway to defund the Drug Czar’s office. How can people get involved with that?
STEVE FOX: They can visit our website, http://mpp.org and take action. Send an email to their member of congress. The more emails that are sent – the better. We are hopeful that a number of members of congress will be supportive of this. They recently, the House, in a recent appropriations debate, defunded the National Drug Intelligence Center which was actually more money than is involved here. And, we hope they’ll see the folly of the office and choose to defund it.
DEAN BECKER: And that website…
STEVE FOX: http://mpp.org
-----------------------
[music]
DEAN BECKER: What will it take to motivate? Please visit DrugTruth.net
Freedom is so overrated
-----------------------
DEAN BECKER: I want to thank you so much for being with us on Century of Lies. I want to thank Brian Vicente of Sensible Colorado for being with us.
You know the recent push to decriminalize, medicalize, legalize drugs, especially marijuana has picked up steam worldwide. These drug prohibition reform efforts, while motivated by the massive harms caused by prohibition, are incomplete remedies is limited to just criminal justice reform. A major aspect of prohibition’s harm is economic and among the remedies which reform needs to include is financial relief for prohibition’s victims. I think that should be an important part of what we do here in the near future.
I want to thank all the good folks who participated to today’s program. And, as always, I remind you there’s no truth, no logic, no reason for this drug war to exist. Please visit our website http://endprohibition.org. Prohibido istac evilesco!
-----------------------
For the Drug Truth Network, this is Dean Becker. Asking you to examine our policy of Drug Prohibition.
The Century of Lies.
This show produced at Pacifica Studios at KPFT, Houston.
Transcript provided by: Jo-D Harrison of www.DrugSense.org