Transcript
Cultural Baggage / July 03, 2011

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Broadcasting on the Drug Truth Network, this is Cultural Baggage.

“It’s not only inhumane, it is really fundamentally Un-American.”

“No more! Drug War!” “No more! Drug War!”
“No more! Drug War!” “No more! Drug War!”

DEAN BECKER: My Name is Dean Becker. I don’t condone or encourage the use of any drugs, legal or illegal. I report the unvarnished truth about the pharmaceutical, banking, prison and judicial nightmare that feeds on Eternal Drug War.

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DEAN BECKER: Hello my friends. Welcome to this edition of Cultural Baggage. I am Dean Becker. Here in just a moment we are going to bring in our guest, PhD, Peter Ferentzy. He’s written a great book. I highly recommend. I want to underscore that. We’ll be talking about that during this program. This is something that everyone needs to read to better understand this demonization of the drug war. The name of the book, "Dealing With Addiction - Why the 20th Century Was Wrong"

And, with that, let’s just go ahead and bring him onboard. Peter Ferentzy, how are you sir?

PETER FERENTZY: I am good, Dean. How are you?

DEAN BECKER: I’m good. I want to thank you for this book. As I was saying in the beginning, this is something that gets to the heart of the matter, that exposes this fraud, this charade for just what it is, doesn’t it?

PETER FERENTZY: Well Dean I want to thank for the endorsement and for having me on the show. This is a great opportunity for me and I appreciate it. I’ve been an addiction researcher for over 20 years. And I was there myself. I choose to identify – a crack head – right on the cover of my book. So I know this topic from the gutters right up to the halls of academe.

I think that the biggest issue…The first one that I take on in my book is the whole idea that addicts need to hit bottom.

DEAN BECKER: Right. And let’s talk about that because…you know, I see it on television…even in the programming, I see it in the movies, I see it in commercials. This recommendation that certain people go to prison for anal rape as kind of a healing for them. Your thought?

PETER FERENTZY: If one or two stories fit that “crash/bang”, hit that and then recover format that doesn’t mean that this is the normal way that people recover. This are sensational examples best used for a B-grade movie but not reality.

Now let’s take the idea. An addict is using. Maybe it’s crack, maybe it’s heroin and the person isn’t quite ready to change. I’ll use that as an example. Let’s say it’s a working girl. So she sells herself three times per day to support her habit. If she’s not ready to change people will tell you she has not hit “her bottom” whatever that personal bottom is.

Now you know and I know that for a working girl like that…even more degradation…a deeper bottom will entail sexual assault or other such things. Now, do you think sexual assault or physical abuse is going to render any women on earth less likely to abuse substances?

DEAN BECKER: Right. And the truth of it is, obviously, it’s just going to drive her further into the embrace of these elixirs.

PETER FERENTZY: All the evidence that we have…Three of the best predictors of success in recovery are; 1) social support 2) cognitive functioning and 3) some kind of social status (a job and stuff like that). If somebody has those three and isn’t ready to put down the bottle or the pipe, you take those three away and that person is now less likely, statistically, far less likely to get dry or to get clean.

And if anybody doubts my word here, I’ll give you an example closer to home that middle-America can relate to.

Let’s say you have two tobacco smokers. They both have a pack and a half habit - 30 cigarettes. They both want to quit. Demographically they are about the same, education – you name it. OK, so it’s all even-steven but one just happens to be married and happy at work. The other is going through a divorce and very unhappy at work. You know, I know and I think that most of the people listening know that the happy camper is a better candidate for leaving the tobacco addiction this week or this month. The other one is going crazy because of the divorce and job stress is less likely to put down the tobacco. It might happen but we know the odds. Just about anybody who smokes or hung out with a few smokers knows that.

So what does that tell you? People are more likely to leave an addiction when things are going well. They are less likely to leave an addiction when their lives are in turmoil. The exact opposite of the whole bottom and out philosophy. Like my title says, “the 20th Century is Wrong.”

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, if I can interrupt you for just a moment, Peter. On the cover of the book you call yourself a crack head. You’ve had your time with it. I call myself a meth head. I had a 2 and one-half year relationship with it. I didn’t have to hit bottom. I didn’t have to be robbed or raped or sent to prison. I found a way, as you were talking about…I got a better job. I wound up getting married. I had a kid. It was easier than it was during the turmoil of chasing down those drugs and that money. Your response.

PETER FERENTZY: People are more likely to respond to an opportunity. I can be a job opportunity, a love relationship, you name it. If you move somebody from the street into housing, away from the bottom, that person is going to be now less self-destructive.

It’s the one thing about abuse. When people are abused they are inclined to respond by abusing themselves further. That’s why abused women tend to go back to their lovers. That’s why hostages sometime, like in Stockholm, get attached to their captors. It’s a weird phenomenon but it’s true.

If you take some of the most unfortunate, some of the most marginalized people in the world and you start abusing them and degrading one-thousand of them…a handful might get better anyway and you might say we helped a few. No, you didn’t. Most of them you rendered far less likely to succeed and the few who did probably did so despite and not because of the abuse and the degradation.

DEAN BECKER: Once again, folks, we’re speaking with Peter Ferentzy. He’s a PhD, great new book, “Dealing with Addiction – Why the 20th Century was Wrong.” Peter we’re not going to have enough time to get into every chapter. I want to kind of lump chapter 2 and 3 together. I’ll read them….”Abstinence is the only real solution – biggest lie in the business” and the next chapter, “Treatment produces abstinence – the second biggest lie.”

I want to preface your thoughts on this with the thought that May 8th made 26 years since I had a drink of alcohol which was my real Waterloo, if you will. I smoke a little weed now and then but those in treatment think I’m on the road to failure. Your response, Peter.

PETER FERENTZY: Let me state, first of all, that abstinence is not the only solution. And secondly, when people attack any type of harm reduction procedure they are missing the point because if somebody is stopping and starting, cutting back, they are getting a little bit of practice.

Even if you have somebody stop for four days - you convince the crack smoker to smoke once every 5 days…You don’t call that a solution? Well, guess what? Somebody that’s used to being clean for four or five days in a row is a better candidate for abstinence than somebody who can’t even imagine going two days without a drink or a blast.

Most people who end up clean, who successfully kicks the booze, had a lot of practice stopping and starting. Yet the system interferes with any assistance to that. That’s one point.

And, yes, you’re right. Somebody can smoke a joint. But, you know, it can’t just be about that because people gamble or they act up sexually. Maybe somebody who can actually smoke a joint or have a glass of wine without going back to the heroin or the meth – maybe that person can’t gamble or maybe the other one should stay away from the wine but can gamble.

The second thing is this. Something that the treatment industry doesn’t want you to know, Dean, but I’m a historian of addiction, and if you don’t believe me you can talk to other historians of addiction and they’ll back me.

If you had a habit in 1890 - alcohol, opiates or cocaine – you’re chances of kicking it were about equal to what they are now. If you put 20 people into a treatment institution or at a 12-step meeting – people in the (inaudible) know. They sometimes look a client straight in the eye and say 1 out of 20 of you are going to make it. By “make it” they mean pure abstinence. The things is, Dean, 1 out of 20 statistically will get better with our without treatment. What the treatment system is doing, for the most part, is taking credit for success stories that would have occurred without their help – in all probability – and kicking out everybody else that really does need help.

And then there are people who try to help the ones who do need help. They are described as “enablers”. How warped is that?! How upside-down is that?!

DEAN BECKER: Well, it’s taking statistics and manipulating them to say, “We’re the winning side.” Right?

PETER FERENTZY: Well, it’s a fact, Dean, because we really are able to help people along the way. Anything you can do to convince somebody who’s drinking 400 bottles of gin a year to drink only 200 bottles…First of all, you’re helping that person because; a) they’re going to have a few days clean, a few days sober and b) after a couple of years that person’s brain will be a little bit less foggy then it used to be. And that renders them a better candidate.

Most people who get clean do a lot of stopping and starting before they actually stop to stay stopped. Very few people use, hardcore cravings, and then stop and never touch a drop or never smoke a joint or whatever. Again, that’s very rare. Most people do a lot of stopping and starting. And that should be encouraged. Anything you can do to cut into the damage; a) cuts into the damage right now and b) increases somebody’s chances for abstinence. That’s just the truth.

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, and yet so many within government and within the treatment industry it’s either/or – there’s no in between.

PETER FERENTZY: In 1850, your typical opiate addict was a white woman, middle class who went to church and made cookies and things. The addict has slowly but surely, for racist reasons, economic reasons, and geo-political reasons, transformed into a scapegoat – some kind of a target.

The vast majority of the crime that goes with drug abuse is not endemic to the drugs. It’s not even endemic to the addiction. It would level the playing ground, you know, I mean, if junkies would not knock over the variety stores any more than alcoholics do. Probably, that’s all, because “alkies” are rowdy…

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, and a little less in touch with reality, I think. Peter, let me intrerrupt you for a sec. Once again we are speaking with Peter Ferentzy, PhD, author of “Dealing with Addiction – Why the 20th Century was Wrong.”

Peter, last year a good friend of mine and of pain patients all across the southwest passed on. And he had some advice for drug users, young folks in particular. I want to share that with you and we’ll come back and talk with Peter Ferentzy.

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JOEL HOCHMAN: This is Dr. Hochman’s guide for “would be” overdose victims.

If you are considering using a drug;

1) to change your mood
2) to get high
3) because your friends are doing it
4) in combination with other mind-altering substances, particularly alcohol
5) to cope with stress
6) to escape
7) in a party situation
8) alone with potential help unavailable
9) for the first time and you are unfamiliar with it
10) at a dose higher than you are used to or you don’t know how strong it is
11) when you have health issues that affect your breathing or your ability to metabolize the drug
12) You don’t know about Naloxone for opiates and it’s not available anyway

The possibility that you may kill yourself is very high. Proceed at your own risk and do not blame the drug. You took it – it didn’t take you. Relax. If you kill yourself, your parents will blame the drug and not you and they will think about you, every day, for the rest of their lives.

This Dr. Joel Simon Hochman from the National Foundation for the Treatment of Pain. Good luck and be wise.

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DEAN BECKER: And, once again, Dr. Joel Hochman talking to us from the grave at this point. Peter, he has a lot of truth in there that we fool ourselves into believing it’s the drugs when it’s in most, if not all cases, the prohibition that leads people into this life of frenzy and …you know…your response?

PETER FERENTZY: What alcohol prohibition did was not cut down on alcoholism. It sure cut into a lot of drinking – a lot of people could take it or leave it or they drank a lot less but more likely to react in self-destructive fashion if the drug is demonized in their mind.

For instance, some people think that native people have a biological reaction to liquor. That’s not the case. What is the truth is they have a culture that has been without alcohol. When they induce alcohol they are taking the white man’s poison and for a whole lot of historical reasons and current economic and political reasons – this is a culture that does not respond well to booze. You see, if you take and you turn it into a huge monster in your mind, it’s going to be a lot more dangerous.

DEAN BECKER: Right…tend to …belief in its problematic nature makes sure it is problematic. Once again, we’re speaking with Peter Ferentzy, PhD, crack head as he says on the title of his book, “Dealing with Addiction.”

Peter, I want to come back to a thought here in your book. Studies have shown that those who are ready to quit, it probably won’t matter if they engage in cognitive behavioral therapy, 12-step, or something else. Studies have been confirming this and you say, “Plus the fact that two of three addicts and alcoholics who achieve abstinence do it without treatment or self-help groups.” Your thoughts…

PETER FERENTZY: I’m really in favor of treatment but it’s if somebody wants it. But the industry is trying to show … First of all, there’s a lot of money in this, so much money behind telling people that they need treatment – which is nonsense. For every alcoholic that uses AA to get treatment, there’s at least 2 or probably more who don’t use that kind of help. Just like they were doing in the 19th century when you didn’t have that kind of treatment system that we have today.

The important thing here is people are being forced into treatment. Addiction is being mystified as a demon that only experts can handle. What kind of expertise is it? Typically you’re told to find a higher power. I’m sorry but that is not a medical approach and people were getting better before that stuff was invented.

DEAN BECKER: Peter, I wanted to ask you this. You know the thought that…the title of a chapter in your book, “Codependency – a stupid word that doesn’t mean anything.” Me and my engineer were talking about that prior to the show and kind of laughing at the thought. You know, codependency – it’s not a two-way street most times, is it?

PETER FERENTZY: Well, no. We understand that codependency is (inaudible). The official line is that 95% / 96% of North Americans were co-dependent – is so broadly defined – they had a little game going that really worked. If you admit that you are co-dependent, it proves that you are. If you deny it then you’re in denial and that proves that you are.

And, although, some people do have issues. Some people get too attached and they support their lovers too much when they should be cutting ties. None the less, for the most part, we’re pathologizing perfectly normal relationships. Telling somebody … Somebody in an addiction treatment program says, “I don’t want to depend on anything outside of myself and neither should you.” I mean, tell the guy to stop breathing, OK?

Like, we have a standard of sufficiency that just isn’t real. Remember, you and I were reared on cowboy movies and “a man’s got to do it for himself” and stuff like that. But what you’re really doing is actually forging a divide between people. And you’re forging a divide between addicts. Because, I’m telling you, that drug addicts who got out are trained to tell the drug addicts that are still using that they need to suffer more – they need to hit bottom.

I see a strong parallel between that and, say, people who used to be poor and now look down on those who are still poor, people from the (inaudible) groups who got out of the ghetto look down at their former peers – how about that?! A similar game is played with addicts. And anything that codependency – do it for yourself. Speak from the “I need to love myself before I can love anybody else.” (inaudible)

There’s just a dividing line between people.

DEAN BECKER: Peter, I want to ask you something. I’m looking at another quote. “What about tough love. Most of the guys who advocate tough love aren’t man enough to be my girlfriend. Still sometimes I’m really tempted to do them a favor.” And, tough love has been a fiasco, has it not?

PETER FERENTZY: Tough love has been a fiasco. Look at it this way. You know in the 19 t h century when all of civilization was pretty much that you had beat children, “Spare the rod, spoil the child.” If you didn’t beat your child, the kid’s less likely to become a good (inaudible), less likely to become a good mother…that’s what everybody thought. And a successful man would stand up and say, “If not for the lickin’s I got when I was a boy, I wouldn’t be the man I am today so that’s what I’m going to pass along to my boy. That’s how I learned…smack.”

It took us centuries to learn that you don’t improve your children with degradation. Centuries...but we go there. It took us centuries, too, to understand that it’s not good to be (inaudible). It’s wasn’t too long ago that – maybe 80 / 100…Christ, 50 years that was still acceptable. We’ve moved on. One subgroup at a time has been fed this official line – degradation is good for you, beating is….being beaten up is good for you…being spit on and told your stupid will make you better and it won’t.

But, unfortunately, this enlightenment has not yet traveled over to drug addicts who are still said to benefit from degradation, abuse, you name it.

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, I want to kind of end with that thought. We got about 2 minutes left. Every bit of the criminal justice system, the prison industrial complex, the whole framework is designed to make people hit that bottom, is it not?

PETER FERENTZY: To some extent, yeah. It’s no accident that I’m going to be doing my book launch at Harm Reduction in Canada in 2011 at a conference that’s about how to help people. How to stop people from hitting bottom so they actually choice to go to school, to get a job – be productive members of society instead of going to jail and costing us $100,000 per year.

DEAN BECKER: I know you guys in Canada are trying to do something similar to this but here in the U.S., it’s designed to 1) jail you without a trial for as long as possible, try to get you to do a mia culpa “I’m guilty, give me my time served or something; Secondarily, if not, they send you to prison where, again, you are subject to rape and violence and all of these things. They’ll take money, they’ll take your house sometimes, they’ll take your car, your kids, they’ll deny you licenses once you get out, on down the line. Everything designed to send you towards that bottom where you’ll learn your lesson. Your response, Mr. Peter Ferentzy.

PETER FERENTZY: Yes and if you want to know how that all started in respect to drug addiction, my seventh chapter covers only history. Drug addiction was soon transformed into an evil maybe around the 20th century all kinds of substance abuse was targeted. It had a lot to do with racial issues, a lot to do with economic issues, a lot to do with global politics. But many of the things that people say about an opiate addict, for example, you talk to somebody in 1850 they’d think you’re nuts because the first opiate addict he could think about would be his aunt who bakes cookies, goes to church…

DEAN BECKER: Yeah, things have changed. Peter we got about 15 seconds here. Share your website and some closing thoughts.

PETER FERENTZY: My website is http://www.peterferentzy.com/. My final thoughts…think of it this way: drug addiction is first and foremost not a recovery issue, a public issue or a moral issue. It’s all about (inaudible) but above all it’s a political issue. These drug addicts have to find a political center – we need to organize.

DEAN BECKER: Alright Peter, I’ve got to let it go. I will be in touch. Folks, I highly recommend this book, “Dealing with Addiction – Why the 20th Century was Wrong.” Thank you, Peter.

PETER FERENTZY: Thank you for having me. It was great.

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(Game show music)
DEAN BECKER: It’s time to play: Name That Drug by Its Side Effects.
Unexpected swelling, joint pain, headaches, dizziness, weakness, unusual bruising, coughing up blood that looks like coffee grinds, red stools that look like tar, severe, uncontrollable bleeding and death…
(gong)
Time’s up!

The answer: Padraxa for irregular heartbeat.

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CLIFF SCHAFFER: I’m Cliff Schaffer. I’m the founder of druglibrary.org. I’ve been an activist for the last 20 years or so.

DEAN BECKER: Now, Cliff, there was a memo released recently, the Ogden memo from the justice department. A lot of folks had high hopes in that regards. What’s your response to it?

CLIFF SCHAFFER: The memo actually meant nothing. You have a situation here where somebody has promised, in this case the federal government or the Obama administration, for example asset forfeiture.

First of all, give me all of your money and you can have it back, plus another 50%, as soon as you can fill out the forms properly. Now, I’m the one who created the forms and I’m the only determiner of, the only person who determines whether the forms are filled out properly. And, I get to keep your money until you fill out the forms properly. What are the odds that you are ever going to get your money solely on what I think?

And this case applies everywhere and this is what happened in the Ogden memo. They said they would not prosecute people who were doing medical marijuana properly. Well, what does properly mean? Well, properly is determined by a group of people from the department of justice and the Drug Enforcement Administration. And, according to them, nothing is ever going to be proper. So, nobody’s ever going to be completely legal.

And, as a result, you got no promise at all. My thought has always been that these are not rational people and you cannot trust anything they say, particularly when it is vaguely worded. And they have no incentive to go along with us at all, in fact, all of their incentives are bent around not cooperating with us. And so, I think, the only way you are going to deal with these people is the same way you get a (inaudible) attention…you hit him in the head with a 2 by 4. I think that’s the case here. I don’t think these people are ever going to come to anything that we would recognize as a rational approach until they are literally forced to do so.

DEAN BECKER: Thank you Cliff Schaffer. Please share your website with the listeners.

CLIFF SCHAFFER: http://www.druglibrary.org\

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DEAN BECKER: Opening up a can of worms and going fishing for truth…this is the Drug Truth Network, drugtruth.net.

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DEAN BECKER: Alright, my friends. Once again I want to thank Peter Ferentzy, “Dealing with Addiction – Why the 20th Century was Wrong” and if you want to look up his website it is http://www.peterferentzy.com. Be sure to check out this week’s Century of Lies show, our guest will be Howard Wooldridge, he’s a former cop, heads up a group called COPS, Citizens Opposing Prohibition. And, join us here next week where our guest will Leigh Maddox. She’s a former Baltimore Police Captain and she’s now a speaker for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

But, most of all, I want you to study up, you know, educate yourself. Get a little more informed and you help us to end this madness of drug war. Do it for your children. Do it for the future. Do it for God’s sake. And, as always, I remind you, because of prohibition – you don’t know what’s in that bag. Please be careful.

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DEAN BECKER: To the Drug Truth Network listeners around the world, this is Dean Becker for Cultural Baggage and the Unvarnished Truth.

This show produced at the Pacifica studios of KPFT, Houston.
Transcript provided by: Jo-D Harrison of www.DrugSense.org

Tap dancing… on the edge… of an abyss.