The failure of Drug War is glaringly obvious to judges, cops, wardens, prosecutors and millions more now calling for decriminalization, legalization, the end of prohibition. Let us investigate the Century of Lies.
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Dean Becker: Hello, my friends welcome to this edition of Century of Lies. Here in just a moment we are going to bring in our guest, Officer Neill Franklin, a man with many years of experience as a law enforcement officer up there in Baltimore, you know, the land of the wire.
He recently had a major op-ed published in the Washington Post, “Time to Legalize Drugs?” We’ll have him on here in just a minute and you’ll also get your chance to, at the half way point, to call in your questions and comments to me and Officer Franklin. But, first, the Abolitionist’s Moment.
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Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Abolitionist’s Moment.
I must confess I was wrong when I when on past shows I stated that the mark up on prohibited drugs was 1700%. The closest I can come to that number is for heroin, where the mark up only comes to 1,667%. For hydroponic marijuana, the markup is significantly off with 3,000%. For cocaine, I was way off base, because the mark up is 3,333%. And, where I missed it the most and where the cartels make the most, is the 16,000% mark up for Mexican marijuana. Please, pardon my error and do your part to end the madness of drug war by visiting our website, endprohibition.org. Do it for the children.
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Dean Becker: OK, my friends. This is Century of Lies. I am Dean Becker. We have with us Officer Neill Franklin. Alright, can you hear me Neill?
Neill Franklin: Hey, Dean, how are you doing down there in Texas?
Dean Becker: I am kicking butt. I am doing alright.
Neill Franklin: I have no doubt.
Dean Becker: Doing alright. Neill, we had a good long talk earlier this week and I want to kind of pick up the conversation, if we can, on one of the points where we left off. And that is, it was my contention that we have broached the barriers, we are at the gate. It’s time to kick it in.
Neill Franklin: It is.
Dean Becker: Your thoughts. Go ahead, sir.
Neill Franklin: Well, I definitely feel like it is time to kick it in. I thin it’s time that we really focus hard upon the ills of prohibition. I think it’s time that we stop holding back and really show people what is going on out there in our cities and just how dangerous prohibition has made our cities, and, not just our cities - our small towns as well.
I think it is time that we demand the government to start really tallying the deaths here in the US that result that result from – either result from or are related to drug prohibition. I think there are many people who would definitely be surprised about just how high those numbers are. We hear the numbers from Mexico but let’s really take a look at the numbers of bodies here in the US.
I think that would really get most people to really start paying attention to this and realize that prohibition is the issue that we need to deal with right away. We have always had a drug problem, a drug abuse problem in this country and we will – but, let’s get rid of the violence first associated with prohibition. Then, we can really focus on our drug abuse problem.
Dean Becker: Exactly right, my friend, and it’s not just the street corner shootouts. There was a situation in Houston, about – I am losing track now, 3, 4 years ago – where in one weekend, I think it was thirteen young people, age seventeen to thirty-five, died because the batch of cocaine they got from their neighborhood dealer turned out to be eighty-five percent heroin, and it killed them.
Neill Franklin: Well, Dean, here you go. You know, when I was on MSNBC the other day, I was asked by Carl Lewis what would be my top three things. I mentioned the first one, which is the end of prohibition and it’s violence. But, number two, when I thought about it, and it was so quick on the show, but after I got off the show and I thought about my number two and my number three.
Number two would be to regulate and to standardize and control the drugs that are out there in our communities. Then number three to educate and the treat – to seriously treat. But, number two is what you were just talking about. There are no standards. There is no regulation. You don’t know what you are getting. These folks out here have no idea what they are getting in the junk that they buying on the street corner.
Dean Becker: Yeah, it… I heard Lavamasil, it think it was, is the current cut they are putting into the cocaine and what it is is a de-wormer, you know, that people are snorting up their nose or injecting into their veins because of this policy. It just drives me nuts.
I want to get back to this piece. It was a piece put together by Peter Moscos and you, both Boston long term police officers - guys who have been in the trenches of this drug war, guys who understand the problem and are seeking a solution. It was kind of nice to see that in the Washington Post, wasn’t it?
Neill Franklin: Oh, yeah, it was. It was. Peter did a really good job on this when he contacted me a while back and, you know, wanted to get our heads together to put together a piece to go in and, you know, he was very consistent on making sure this went in because it was so important. You know, the time that we spent - actually, it will be thirty-three years in law enforcement for me next month and of course Peter is spending his time there in Baltimore for a few years and really got tot see quite a bit and to understand quite a bit.
The time that I spent with the Maryland State Police, I spent most of that time, from the beginning, which is as a narc on the street all the way up through supervisory ranks and eventually to a commander of numerous drug task forces. So, I got to see it from the street level and how you deal with it on the street level all the way up to the millions of dollars that we spend, that we waste, in this effort.
Dean Becker: Yeah. You know, one of the underlying points that you all made in this op-ed kind of reminds me of my first letter to the editor. I must have written twelve of them. Never getting anything published and then I wrote one that I changed up slightly different but it was the same thing.
Sent it out to, what is it? San Antonio, Austin, Houston and Galveston all published the same letter within about two days and it was about fatherless children. Two cops shot dead. One drug suspect shot dead. And for what? A couple of pounds of pretty much useless Mexican marijuana. We call upon these fine police officers to go out there, put their life on the line for a war that can never be won. It is just insane.
Neill Franklin: Well, you know, Dean, I can name quite a few officers, friends and comrades of mine who have lost their life in this mess and number one a very dear friend of mine and as you said, fatherless children… There are now three because my friend and narcotics agent who also used to work for me many years ago Edward [ Totely ] you know was assassinated back in 2000 - October thirtieth of 2000 in Washington DC. And, you know, left behind a wife and three children. Mom and dad still alive - saw them a couple of months ago. Thank god they are doing OK.
But, you know it goes back to Detective Marcellus Ward who I knew back in 1984 who was assassinated the same way in Baltimore City and the list goes on. I mean, there is William Martin here in Baltimore City that was assassinated and I mean, it doesn’t stop and I am just talking about the ones who were killed in the line of duty.
Another one in Baltimore - Officer Gavin. That was back in 2000. Joseph [ Cowtery ] back in 2001. Same thing and I am not even talking about the officers that have been injured to the point where they can no longer work as a law enforcement officer. And I have just named a few in Baltimore.
Dean Becker: Yeah and it goes on nation-wide. It is… You hear the phrase drug related crime but it is not drug related. Is it? For the most part it is prohibition.
Neill Franklin: Prohibition.
Dean Becker: Yeah. We are speaking with Neill Franklin, one of my band of brothers I am very proud to be a member of. I am glad they allowed me in for my service to our country as a security policeman but, we speak to, well, heck, to anybody really, but we schedule events and speaking engagements I think we have done, if I remember right, Jack says something like eleven thousand presentation thus far world wide.
Neill Franklin: Oh yes.
Dean Becker: And the response is becoming warm to our presentations now, isn’t it?
Neill Franklin: Yes it is. I think we’re – I think even this year so far, I think we are somewhere up close to 600.
Dean Becker: Yeah, yeah. And you know, I speak to mostly rural Lions Clubs and it is amazing how even there the Methodist minister that is attending may jump up and say, ‘Hey, you forgot to talk about the good things that are happening in Amsterdam.’ People are becoming aware, right?
Neill Franklin: Yes, they are and it’s really a great feeling, like you said, to go to a meeting to do a presentation and then you realize that hey, there are some folks out there have been doing a little research and they are really interested in what’s going on out there. I have been to a couple where folks knew more than I did.
Dean Becker: Well, and it’s good, it’s definitely good. You know, there are other major media that are starting to talk about this. One that was just yesterday: Priority Test, Health Care or Prisons by Nicolas D. [Christoph], talking about, you know, we can abandon our health care reform because it is too expensive.
But, how can we afford to imprison so many people? It’s astounding. Texas and California always challenge each other for total volume of prisoners but it looks like California is going to have to scale it back by forty thousand according to some superior court ruling.
Neill Franklin: Yes.
Dean Becker: And we will be left standing as the judge Roy Beaners of all time, I guess.
Neill Franklin: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, prisons are big business and unfortunately that is the case because where you have people making a lot of money it is very difficult to make changes.
Dean Becker: Right, right. Well, friends, we have been speaking with Mr. Neill Franklin. You still work in there in Baltimore, right? Actually I am still current – I am a major with a department here in the state of Maryland. This is my third agency. After Baltimore, I came here and I am still at it but I am not doing drug work, thank god.
Dean Becker: Thank god. That would be hard to do, wouldn’t it?
Neill Franklin: Yes it would.
Dean Becker: It would. My friends, I tell you what. We are going to take a short little break, about ninety seconds, and we will be back to take your questions. Locally, you can call 713 526 5738 and anywhere in North America dial toll free 1 877 9 420 420.
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[PSA]
Game Show Announcer: It’s time to play Who Wants to be a Billionaire?
From the Mexican Gulf Cartel we have Mr. Anonymous.
From the top Columbian cartels we have Mr. Unknown.
In order to win this railroad car packed with hundred dollar bills, all you have to do is connive. Corrupt sufficient numbers officials and kill enough yr allies and friends to claim these dead presidents. There are no rules, no laws and no way the government can ever stop your efforts.
Ready? Continue.
[cuts to thumping and ominous sounds]
Announcer: Everyone’s a winner!
________________
[PSA]
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.
These men and women have served in the trenches of the drug war as prosecutors, judges, cops, guards and wardens. They have seen first hand the utter futility of our policy and now work together to end drug prohibition.
Please visit leap.cc
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Dean Becker: Alright, you are listening to the Century of Lies show. My name is Dean Becker. We have our guest on line, Neill Franklin, current working police officer up there in Maryland. And, we have a couple of lines open, please give us a call 713 526 5738 or anywhere in North America dial toll free 1 877 9 420 420. Let’s go to Logan on line one. Hello Logan, you are on the air.
Caller: Hi, man, how’s it going?
Dean Becker: I am good, Logan. You had a question or a comment?
Caller: Yeah, I am twenty years old. I have been living in the Houston area for a while now and you know, I have just got to say it is ridiculous the crime you know, there just shouldn’t be any crimes for it mainly because it stays on your record and you have got these kids my age, younger than me even and I mean, they are going out, they are getting caught with a dime or something like that – that is on their permanent record. They can kiss any professional job goodbye after that because of the way it has been labeled.
Dean Becker: And maybe even a driver’s license, et cetera. Your thoughts, Neill?
Neill Franklin: Well, you know, one of our founders, Jack Cole, always says that you can get over an addiction but you will never get over a conviction in this country.
Dean Becker: Yep.
Neill Franklin: And, unfortunately, that is what a lot of our young people are going through. You know, they have for a marijuana possession charge. Here, we have these young people who can’t even get financing to go to college. So where does that leave them? So, it is constantly pushing people back.
[buzzing sound]
Dean Becker: Whoops. OK, you still with us Neill? Hello, Neill?
Dean Becker: Yes. OK, I thought we lost you. We apparently dropped a couple of calls, please call us back. Logan was making a point and I want to kind of underline it with – and this is in today’s Houston Chronicle: Thousands Languish in Crowded Jail. And they go to talk about the thousands of people that are in there now for crack pipes, for you know, the empty – basically empty – bag or for minor amounts of marijuana and the judges will not let them out on personal recognizance. It’s… your thoughts, Neill?
Neill Franklin: Well, that is a huge problem not just because… Well, for example, here in Baltimore. Whenever you get arrested here in Baltimore, you are guaranteed, first of all, whether it is a valid charge or not – and that’s another story, we have had issues here in Baltimore – but, you are guaranteed three days in the detention center.
Because they are so over crowded, they cannot handle the influx of people who are going through that facility. That is pretty much guaranteed three days before you get to see a commissioner to even get the chance to get out on your personal recognizance. Many of those, like you said, are for minor possession charges, paraphernalia or just other charges that really, you know, shouldn’t be going into a detention center for.
At most, you should be given some sort of civil citation or something, but, you know, of course, in my opinion, I think all this is nonsense. But, it just affects the people for such a long time. Even an arrest – you don’t even have to be convicted. The damage just of what a simple arrest does to a person is unbelievable.
Dean Becker: Yeah, and it just multiplies, just keeps on tumbling throughout your life. We are speaking with Neill Franklin and he is a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. We are looking for your calls. We have a couple of people on line but we would love to hear from you. 713 526 5738 or toll free 1 877 9 420 420. Let’s go to Leonard, line one. Leonard?
Caller: Yes, I just have one question because I’m enjoying this show and my mind is just at work right now. I am hearing that it’s not a – put on and make it for real, there is no sense in making excuses. I hear more white organizations speaking up for marijuana and black folks smoke a ton of it.
Why aren’t you all enlisting black organizations and then it would become prohibition in the total sense, because, you know, if drug violations, all that… If this was prohibited like this was the [ ] or it was the [ ]. So my question is, again, why aren’t you all recruiting more black and, in fact, every other race, too? And make this a political thing.
Dean Becker: Well…
Neill Franklin: Hey, Leonard.
Caller: Yeah.
Neill Franklin: First of all, I am black. And let me tell you something. I have been trying to do what you are suggesting for so long and it is a difficult battle to fight and I don’t understand why, because the damage that prohibition is doing in our African-American and Hispanic communities is just unbelievable.
That is where most of the damage is being done, not just with our folks dying but with violations of civil rights is off the hook. A lot of this, the violation of our fourth amendment rights, most of that is attributed to the prohibition of drugs. We have people out there being searched improperly, illegally every day – as we are talking right now. I have been…
Caller: OK, I just want to ask and you all have been very polite. Have you ever been to Canada? Have you ever been to Sweden? And all those countries where they have marijuana laws, it’s way less crime.
Dean Becker: Exactly right, Leonard.
Caller: And I appreciate that you area black on the show because I have never heard anybody black on this subject matter and I think we need to start something. Get something online, you know. Think of the protests, there would be every nationality and people from all walks of life. We need a million people marching to legalize marijuana in Washington DC.
Dean Becker: There are folks working on that. Leonard, we thank you for your call. As members of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, Neill and I work with people trying to legalize marijuana, medical marijuana as we just did with Fred Gardner. But the point is we want to legalize all these drugs. We want to destroy the cartels. We want to kill Osama’s cash cow. We want to take away the reason for these violent gangs to exist in our neighborhood. Let’s go to Mr. A on line two. You are on the air.
Caller: Hey, how are you doing?
Dean Becker: I am good, sir. You have a question or comment?
Caller: Well, I have a comment. I used to do what you call a drug competence court and normally and in the office I worked in we called them and we started weed and seed programs and these anti-drug prevention campaigns and all that. All these are a big hoax and when these things come out, it’s just to make the public think that they are doing something. I mean, it was money just coming in.
It was basically jobs programs, that’s what it was. My budget was $409,000 and when I left I had worked it up to like $1.2 million and you know who my biggest enemy was? And when I asked to use the money to spend it on what it was used for is when I, you know, started getting pressured to leave.
You know, when we have all these different programs these people – man – it is nothing but a big game. Because if you want to start doing… If you don’t realize we are in America. We have the cop technology. An officer which you’re going against, your pocket is not as deep as the people who are making money off of housing all these people in prison and these state jails and all that.
Because when I was teaching, I taught kids and say, when you go inside, look at the number of people you employ. I mean, look at how many people are employed in this system. Because of those simple things like, you know, what you were talking about earlier. You are talking about a whole industry,
So, you have a battle, you really do, because it’s money. It’s all about money. It’s not about rehabilitating anybody because when the people come out, they let them go back to the same neighborhoods where they had the problems and the problem in the neighborhood it never left. So they are going to end up going back as soon it’s like why do you have recidivist - just the same thing
And you know, like, when people get arrested, like you said earlier, just an arrest. They even changed deferred adjudication, I was told the other day. And they go back, I think twenty years here in Texas and deferred adjudication is basically, you know when you first had it that was a way, you know, you do your little probation and your lawyer going to advise you to do this here and then when you get out, you don’t have to say anything. You have not been convicted, blah, blah, blah…
Now they have it on applications. So, people can’t try and work. And I am going to let you go on this. When a person is hungry, have either of you gentlemen really ever been hungry?
Dean Becker: You bet.
Caller: Your mind goes totally to another place because it comes into survival mode and some people out there, I am not saying all, out there trying to survive. A lot of the kids I talk to really don’t want to sell drugs. They want a decent job but they don’t – they are not being taught the responsibility to come in to work and things that they need to do and making sacrifices but I really want to say this: all this stuff is just a big joke, man.
Dean Becker: It is. Mr A. I tell you what, you brought forward some very profound thoughts. I am going to let Neill Franklin respond.
Caller: OK, then let me say this right quick. You know when they do the big drug busts like the big seizures they have? Do you ever see the people they busted, or do you just see the drugs? That ain’t nothing but show time. They never show the people they bust and they get these big tankers or these big trucks. They just show the drugs, that’s it. It’s show time and I just want know people that know that. It’s just out there in the front to make you think they are doing something while the main people who are out there supposed to be stopping it are part of it. You all have a good day, man.
Dean Becker: Thank you, Mr. A. Neill, your response.
Neill Franklin: Yes. You are right, he brought up a couple of good points, beginning with what he said about weed and seed and a number of those programs that are out there that I at one time was responsible for directing the funding for and involved in the funding. And that is how local agencies get federal funds.
They come up with a program that seems to have some validity to it and they put it together and they get their funds, their grant funding and so on and they buy all the wonderful toys and bits of technology for their agencies and you know, overtime money for their employees. And in those programs, that’s when you will see the drug seizures and they have done this and a big dog and pony show and… But you know, they do one of those every six months and they have been doing it every six months for almost, for about thirty years.
Dean Becker: Yeah.
Neill Franklin: Nothing has ever changed. Money is huge here and that is why LEAP is really focusing on bringing this thing to the light from the grassroots level from the people, like you said, from the Rotary Clubs, your Lions Clubs, your churches and doing our presentations for them and educating the people at the ground level so that they can push it to their representatives in Washington DC to get things done. Because, you know, they understand votes in DC.
And then finally what he was talking about with these kids and being hungry. He is absolutely right. These kids in these… first of all, they have no guidance because of what prohibition has done to a number of families, putting fathers in jail, putting mothers in jail.
Not having any standards or regulation with these drugs in my opinion it causes more addiction issues so these kids are out there by themselves trying to decide, how can I get money, what can I do? And then you look over and they see, I don’t want to but I can make some money selling these drugs. I know it’s bad and its wrong but I am hungry. I have got some siblings here I a have got to deal with and buy clothing for and food. So, I am going to go out here and do what I have got to do on the corner.
But, you know, we have an opportunity to take that option away from our young people and then to focus them in the direction of education and we as a community can really do some job training and placement and make sure – of course, we have to make sure the jobs are there but let’s take this opportunity of criminal activity away from our young people. It’s not even an option for them if we do that.
Dean Becker: Yeah. OK, Kevin. Thank you for waiting. Let’s go to Kevin, line three. You’re going to be our last caller. I think everyone who has called in. Your comments, Kevin.
Caller: Yes, thank you. I will be very brief. I tuned in late, I don’t know if this has been spoken to but, I personally am a recovering drug addict and have also worked as a substance abuse counselor for about the past twenty-five years. The one issue, I don’t know if it’s been spoken to or not but I really think stands as a roadblock in our nation, in our culture this issue is religiosity.
I think that the whole idea of good and bad, sin and wellness, if you will, colors a lot of our thinking and I think that unfortunate. I don’t know how we get past that. But there is so much empirical data to indicate that prohibition not only is not working but has crippled our nation in many, many ways. Again, blocked or derailed by this idea of good, bad, sin and otherwise.
Dean Becker: OK. You kept…
Caller: Listen, please, keep fighting the good fight.
Dean Becker: We will. Kevin, thank you for your question. We have got about thirty seconds here for you, please, Neill, respond.
Neill Franklin: Kevin, I really liked what you said because you know, along the lines of morality, that’s a big issue for a lot of people. I, for one, being a dedicated Christian, believe that god has given us the ability and the - he has given us the opportunity to choose to make choices and he guides us in those directions of making good and bad choices for us as to what we put in and do with our bodies and I think that prohibition is taking that ability to choose away from us.
Dean Becker: Yeah.
Neill Franklin: And, I think that without prohibition, we could really focus on raising our kids to make good, well informed decisions…
Dean Becker: Excuse me, I have got to interrupt here. I remind you out there, folks, that there is no truth, justice, logic, scientific fact, medical data, in fact, no reason for this drug war to exist. We have been duped. Visit our website: endprohibition.org. Prohibido esta evilesco.
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For the Drug Truth Network, this is Dean Becker, asking you to examine our policy of drug prohibition. The Century of Lies.
This show produced at the Pacifica Studios of KPFT, Houston.
Transcript
Century of Lies, August 23, 2009
The failure of Drug War is glaringly obvious to judges, cops, wardens, prosecutors and millions more now calling for decriminalization, legalization, the end of prohibition. Let us investigate the Century of Lies.
________________
Dean Becker: Hello, my friends welcome to this edition of Century of Lies. Here in just a moment we are going to bring in our guest, Officer Neill Franklin, a man with many years of experience as a law enforcement officer up there in Baltimore, you know, the land of the wire.
He recently had a major op-ed published in the Washington Post, “Time to Legalize Drugs?” We’ll have him on here in just a minute and you’ll also get your chance to, at the half way point, to call in your questions and comments to me and Officer Franklin. But, first, the Abolitionist’s Moment.
________________
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Abolitionist’s Moment.
I must confess I was wrong when I when on past shows I stated that the mark up on prohibited drugs was 1700%. The closest I can come to that number is for heroin, where the mark up only comes to 1,667%. For hydroponic marijuana, the markup is significantly off with 3,000%. For cocaine, I was way off base, because the mark up is 3,333%. And, where I missed it the most and where the cartels make the most, is the 16,000% mark up for Mexican marijuana. Please, pardon my error and do your part to end the madness of drug war by visiting our website, endprohibition.org. Do it for the children.
________________
Dean Becker: OK, my friends. This is Century of Lies. I am Dean Becker. We have with us Officer Neill Franklin. Alright, can you hear me Neill?
Neill Franklin: Hey, Dean, how are you doing down there in Texas?
Dean Becker: I am kicking butt. I am doing alright.
Neill Franklin: I have no doubt.
Dean Becker: Doing alright. Neill, we had a good long talk earlier this week and I want to kind of pick up the conversation, if we can, on one of the points where we left off. And that is, it was my contention that we have broached the barriers, we are at the gate. It’s time to kick it in.
Neill Franklin: It is.
Dean Becker: Your thoughts. Go ahead, sir.
Neill Franklin: Well, I definitely feel like it is time to kick it in. I thin it’s time that we really focus hard upon the ills of prohibition. I think it’s time that we stop holding back and really show people what is going on out there in our cities and just how dangerous prohibition has made our cities, and, not just our cities - our small towns as well.
I think it is time that we demand the government to start really tallying the deaths here in the US that result that result from – either result from or are related to drug prohibition. I think there are many people who would definitely be surprised about just how high those numbers are. We hear the numbers from Mexico but let’s really take a look at the numbers of bodies here in the US.
I think that would really get most people to really start paying attention to this and realize that prohibition is the issue that we need to deal with right away. We have always had a drug problem, a drug abuse problem in this country and we will – but, let’s get rid of the violence first associated with prohibition. Then, we can really focus on our drug abuse problem.
Dean Becker: Exactly right, my friend, and it’s not just the street corner shootouts. There was a situation in Houston, about – I am losing track now, 3, 4 years ago – where in one weekend, I think it was thirteen young people, age seventeen to thirty-five, died because the batch of cocaine they got from their neighborhood dealer turned out to be eighty-five percent heroin, and it killed them.
Neill Franklin: Well, Dean, here you go. You know, when I was on MSNBC the other day, I was asked by Carl Lewis what would be my top three things. I mentioned the first one, which is the end of prohibition and it’s violence. But, number two, when I thought about it, and it was so quick on the show, but after I got off the show and I thought about my number two and my number three.
Number two would be to regulate and to standardize and control the drugs that are out there in our communities. Then number three to educate and the treat – to seriously treat. But, number two is what you were just talking about. There are no standards. There is no regulation. You don’t know what you are getting. These folks out here have no idea what they are getting in the junk that they buying on the street corner.
Dean Becker: Yeah, it… I heard Lavamasil, it think it was, is the current cut they are putting into the cocaine and what it is is a de-wormer, you know, that people are snorting up their nose or injecting into their veins because of this policy. It just drives me nuts.
I want to get back to this piece. It was a piece put together by Peter Moscos and you, both Boston long term police officers - guys who have been in the trenches of this drug war, guys who understand the problem and are seeking a solution. It was kind of nice to see that in the Washington Post, wasn’t it?
Neill Franklin: Oh, yeah, it was. It was. Peter did a really good job on this when he contacted me a while back and, you know, wanted to get our heads together to put together a piece to go in and, you know, he was very consistent on making sure this went in because it was so important. You know, the time that we spent - actually, it will be thirty-three years in law enforcement for me next month and of course Peter is spending his time there in Baltimore for a few years and really got tot see quite a bit and to understand quite a bit.
The time that I spent with the Maryland State Police, I spent most of that time, from the beginning, which is as a narc on the street all the way up through supervisory ranks and eventually to a commander of numerous drug task forces. So, I got to see it from the street level and how you deal with it on the street level all the way up to the millions of dollars that we spend, that we waste, in this effort.
Dean Becker: Yeah. You know, one of the underlying points that you all made in this op-ed kind of reminds me of my first letter to the editor. I must have written twelve of them. Never getting anything published and then I wrote one that I changed up slightly different but it was the same thing.
Sent it out to, what is it? San Antonio, Austin, Houston and Galveston all published the same letter within about two days and it was about fatherless children. Two cops shot dead. One drug suspect shot dead. And for what? A couple of pounds of pretty much useless Mexican marijuana. We call upon these fine police officers to go out there, put their life on the line for a war that can never be won. It is just insane.
Neill Franklin: Well, you know, Dean, I can name quite a few officers, friends and comrades of mine who have lost their life in this mess and number one a very dear friend of mine and as you said, fatherless children… There are now three because my friend and narcotics agent who also used to work for me many years ago Edward [ Totely ] you know was assassinated back in 2000 - October thirtieth of 2000 in Washington DC. And, you know, left behind a wife and three children. Mom and dad still alive - saw them a couple of months ago. Thank god they are doing OK.
But, you know it goes back to Detective Marcellus Ward who I knew back in 1984 who was assassinated the same way in Baltimore City and the list goes on. I mean, there is William Martin here in Baltimore City that was assassinated and I mean, it doesn’t stop and I am just talking about the ones who were killed in the line of duty.
Another one in Baltimore - Officer Gavin. That was back in 2000. Joseph [ Cowtery ] back in 2001. Same thing and I am not even talking about the officers that have been injured to the point where they can no longer work as a law enforcement officer. And I have just named a few in Baltimore.
Dean Becker: Yeah and it goes on nation-wide. It is… You hear the phrase drug related crime but it is not drug related. Is it? For the most part it is prohibition.
Neill Franklin: Prohibition.
Dean Becker: Yeah. We are speaking with Neill Franklin, one of my band of brothers I am very proud to be a member of. I am glad they allowed me in for my service to our country as a security policeman but, we speak to, well, heck, to anybody really, but we schedule events and speaking engagements I think we have done, if I remember right, Jack says something like eleven thousand presentation thus far world wide.
Neill Franklin: Oh yes.
Dean Becker: And the response is becoming warm to our presentations now, isn’t it?
Neill Franklin: Yes it is. I think we’re – I think even this year so far, I think we are somewhere up close to 600.
Dean Becker: Yeah, yeah. And you know, I speak to mostly rural Lions Clubs and it is amazing how even there the Methodist minister that is attending may jump up and say, ‘Hey, you forgot to talk about the good things that are happening in Amsterdam.’ People are becoming aware, right?
Neill Franklin: Yes, they are and it’s really a great feeling, like you said, to go to a meeting to do a presentation and then you realize that hey, there are some folks out there have been doing a little research and they are really interested in what’s going on out there. I have been to a couple where folks knew more than I did.
Dean Becker: Well, and it’s good, it’s definitely good. You know, there are other major media that are starting to talk about this. One that was just yesterday: Priority Test, Health Care or Prisons by Nicolas D. [Christoph], talking about, you know, we can abandon our health care reform because it is too expensive.
But, how can we afford to imprison so many people? It’s astounding. Texas and California always challenge each other for total volume of prisoners but it looks like California is going to have to scale it back by forty thousand according to some superior court ruling.
Neill Franklin: Yes.
Dean Becker: And we will be left standing as the judge Roy Beaners of all time, I guess.
Neill Franklin: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, prisons are big business and unfortunately that is the case because where you have people making a lot of money it is very difficult to make changes.
Dean Becker: Right, right. Well, friends, we have been speaking with Mr. Neill Franklin. You still work in there in Baltimore, right? Actually I am still current – I am a major with a department here in the state of Maryland. This is my third agency. After Baltimore, I came here and I am still at it but I am not doing drug work, thank god.
Dean Becker: Thank god. That would be hard to do, wouldn’t it?
Neill Franklin: Yes it would.
Dean Becker: It would. My friends, I tell you what. We are going to take a short little break, about ninety seconds, and we will be back to take your questions. Locally, you can call 713 526 5738 and anywhere in North America dial toll free 1 877 9 420 420.
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[PSA]
Game Show Announcer: It’s time to play Who Wants to be a Billionaire?
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[cuts to thumping and ominous sounds]
Announcer: Everyone’s a winner!
________________
[PSA]
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These men and women have served in the trenches of the drug war as prosecutors, judges, cops, guards and wardens. They have seen first hand the utter futility of our policy and now work together to end drug prohibition.
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________________
Dean Becker: Alright, you are listening to the Century of Lies show. My name is Dean Becker. We have our guest on line, Neill Franklin, current working police officer up there in Maryland. And, we have a couple of lines open, please give us a call 713 526 5738 or anywhere in North America dial toll free 1 877 9 420 420. Let’s go to Logan on line one. Hello Logan, you are on the air.
Caller: Hi, man, how’s it going?
Dean Becker: I am good, Logan. You had a question or a comment?
Caller: Yeah, I am twenty years old. I have been living in the Houston area for a while now and you know, I have just got to say it is ridiculous the crime you know, there just shouldn’t be any crimes for it mainly because it stays on your record and you have got these kids my age, younger than me even and I mean, they are going out, they are getting caught with a dime or something like that – that is on their permanent record. They can kiss any professional job goodbye after that because of the way it has been labeled.
Dean Becker: And maybe even a driver’s license, et cetera. Your thoughts, Neill?
Neill Franklin: Well, you know, one of our founders, Jack Cole, always says that you can get over an addiction but you will never get over a conviction in this country.
Dean Becker: Yep.
Neill Franklin: And, unfortunately, that is what a lot of our young people are going through. You know, they have for a marijuana possession charge. Here, we have these young people who can’t even get financing to go to college. So where does that leave them? So, it is constantly pushing people back.
[buzzing sound]
Dean Becker: Whoops. OK, you still with us Neill? Hello, Neill?
Dean Becker: Yes. OK, I thought we lost you. We apparently dropped a couple of calls, please call us back. Logan was making a point and I want to kind of underline it with – and this is in today’s Houston Chronicle: Thousands Languish in Crowded Jail. And they go to talk about the thousands of people that are in there now for crack pipes, for you know, the empty – basically empty – bag or for minor amounts of marijuana and the judges will not let them out on personal recognizance. It’s… your thoughts, Neill?
Neill Franklin: Well, that is a huge problem not just because… Well, for example, here in Baltimore. Whenever you get arrested here in Baltimore, you are guaranteed, first of all, whether it is a valid charge or not – and that’s another story, we have had issues here in Baltimore – but, you are guaranteed three days in the detention center.
Because they are so over crowded, they cannot handle the influx of people who are going through that facility. That is pretty much guaranteed three days before you get to see a commissioner to even get the chance to get out on your personal recognizance. Many of those, like you said, are for minor possession charges, paraphernalia or just other charges that really, you know, shouldn’t be going into a detention center for.
At most, you should be given some sort of civil citation or something, but, you know, of course, in my opinion, I think all this is nonsense. But, it just affects the people for such a long time. Even an arrest – you don’t even have to be convicted. The damage just of what a simple arrest does to a person is unbelievable.
Dean Becker: Yeah, and it just multiplies, just keeps on tumbling throughout your life. We are speaking with Neill Franklin and he is a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. We are looking for your calls. We have a couple of people on line but we would love to hear from you. 713 526 5738 or toll free 1 877 9 420 420. Let’s go to Leonard, line one. Leonard?
Caller: Yes, I just have one question because I’m enjoying this show and my mind is just at work right now. I am hearing that it’s not a – put on and make it for real, there is no sense in making excuses. I hear more white organizations speaking up for marijuana and black folks smoke a ton of it.
Why aren’t you all enlisting black organizations and then it would become prohibition in the total sense, because, you know, if drug violations, all that… If this was prohibited like this was the [ ] or it was the [ ]. So my question is, again, why aren’t you all recruiting more black and, in fact, every other race, too? And make this a political thing.
Dean Becker: Well…
Neill Franklin: Hey, Leonard.
Caller: Yeah.
Neill Franklin: First of all, I am black. And let me tell you something. I have been trying to do what you are suggesting for so long and it is a difficult battle to fight and I don’t understand why, because the damage that prohibition is doing in our African-American and Hispanic communities is just unbelievable.
That is where most of the damage is being done, not just with our folks dying but with violations of civil rights is off the hook. A lot of this, the violation of our fourth amendment rights, most of that is attributed to the prohibition of drugs. We have people out there being searched improperly, illegally every day – as we are talking right now. I have been…
Caller: OK, I just want to ask and you all have been very polite. Have you ever been to Canada? Have you ever been to Sweden? And all those countries where they have marijuana laws, it’s way less crime.
Dean Becker: Exactly right, Leonard.
Caller: And I appreciate that you area black on the show because I have never heard anybody black on this subject matter and I think we need to start something. Get something online, you know. Think of the protests, there would be every nationality and people from all walks of life. We need a million people marching to legalize marijuana in Washington DC.
Dean Becker: There are folks working on that. Leonard, we thank you for your call. As members of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, Neill and I work with people trying to legalize marijuana, medical marijuana as we just did with Fred Gardner. But the point is we want to legalize all these drugs. We want to destroy the cartels. We want to kill Osama’s cash cow. We want to take away the reason for these violent gangs to exist in our neighborhood. Let’s go to Mr. A on line two. You are on the air.
Caller: Hey, how are you doing?
Dean Becker: I am good, sir. You have a question or comment?
Caller: Well, I have a comment. I used to do what you call a drug competence court and normally and in the office I worked in we called them and we started weed and seed programs and these anti-drug prevention campaigns and all that. All these are a big hoax and when these things come out, it’s just to make the public think that they are doing something. I mean, it was money just coming in.
It was basically jobs programs, that’s what it was. My budget was $409,000 and when I left I had worked it up to like $1.2 million and you know who my biggest enemy was? And when I asked to use the money to spend it on what it was used for is when I, you know, started getting pressured to leave.
You know, when we have all these different programs these people – man – it is nothing but a big game. Because if you want to start doing… If you don’t realize we are in America. We have the cop technology. An officer which you’re going against, your pocket is not as deep as the people who are making money off of housing all these people in prison and these state jails and all that.
Because when I was teaching, I taught kids and say, when you go inside, look at the number of people you employ. I mean, look at how many people are employed in this system. Because of those simple things like, you know, what you were talking about earlier. You are talking about a whole industry,
So, you have a battle, you really do, because it’s money. It’s all about money. It’s not about rehabilitating anybody because when the people come out, they let them go back to the same neighborhoods where they had the problems and the problem in the neighborhood it never left. So they are going to end up going back as soon it’s like why do you have recidivist - just the same thing
And you know, like, when people get arrested, like you said earlier, just an arrest. They even changed deferred adjudication, I was told the other day. And they go back, I think twenty years here in Texas and deferred adjudication is basically, you know when you first had it that was a way, you know, you do your little probation and your lawyer going to advise you to do this here and then when you get out, you don’t have to say anything. You have not been convicted, blah, blah, blah…
Now they have it on applications. So, people can’t try and work. And I am going to let you go on this. When a person is hungry, have either of you gentlemen really ever been hungry?
Dean Becker: You bet.
Caller: Your mind goes totally to another place because it comes into survival mode and some people out there, I am not saying all, out there trying to survive. A lot of the kids I talk to really don’t want to sell drugs. They want a decent job but they don’t – they are not being taught the responsibility to come in to work and things that they need to do and making sacrifices but I really want to say this: all this stuff is just a big joke, man.
Dean Becker: It is. Mr A. I tell you what, you brought forward some very profound thoughts. I am going to let Neill Franklin respond.
Caller: OK, then let me say this right quick. You know when they do the big drug busts like the big seizures they have? Do you ever see the people they busted, or do you just see the drugs? That ain’t nothing but show time. They never show the people they bust and they get these big tankers or these big trucks. They just show the drugs, that’s it. It’s show time and I just want know people that know that. It’s just out there in the front to make you think they are doing something while the main people who are out there supposed to be stopping it are part of it. You all have a good day, man.
Dean Becker: Thank you, Mr. A. Neill, your response.
Neill Franklin: Yes. You are right, he brought up a couple of good points, beginning with what he said about weed and seed and a number of those programs that are out there that I at one time was responsible for directing the funding for and involved in the funding. And that is how local agencies get federal funds.
They come up with a program that seems to have some validity to it and they put it together and they get their funds, their grant funding and so on and they buy all the wonderful toys and bits of technology for their agencies and you know, overtime money for their employees. And in those programs, that’s when you will see the drug seizures and they have done this and a big dog and pony show and… But you know, they do one of those every six months and they have been doing it every six months for almost, for about thirty years.
Dean Becker: Yeah.
Neill Franklin: Nothing has ever changed. Money is huge here and that is why LEAP is really focusing on bringing this thing to the light from the grassroots level from the people, like you said, from the Rotary Clubs, your Lions Clubs, your churches and doing our presentations for them and educating the people at the ground level so that they can push it to their representatives in Washington DC to get things done. Because, you know, they understand votes in DC.
And then finally what he was talking about with these kids and being hungry. He is absolutely right. These kids in these… first of all, they have no guidance because of what prohibition has done to a number of families, putting fathers in jail, putting mothers in jail.
Not having any standards or regulation with these drugs in my opinion it causes more addiction issues so these kids are out there by themselves trying to decide, how can I get money, what can I do? And then you look over and they see, I don’t want to but I can make some money selling these drugs. I know it’s bad and its wrong but I am hungry. I have got some siblings here I a have got to deal with and buy clothing for and food. So, I am going to go out here and do what I have got to do on the corner.
But, you know, we have an opportunity to take that option away from our young people and then to focus them in the direction of education and we as a community can really do some job training and placement and make sure – of course, we have to make sure the jobs are there but let’s take this opportunity of criminal activity away from our young people. It’s not even an option for them if we do that.
Dean Becker: Yeah. OK, Kevin. Thank you for waiting. Let’s go to Kevin, line three. You’re going to be our last caller. I think everyone who has called in. Your comments, Kevin.
Caller: Yes, thank you. I will be very brief. I tuned in late, I don’t know if this has been spoken to but, I personally am a recovering drug addict and have also worked as a substance abuse counselor for about the past twenty-five years. The one issue, I don’t know if it’s been spoken to or not but I really think stands as a roadblock in our nation, in our culture this issue is religiosity.
I think that the whole idea of good and bad, sin and wellness, if you will, colors a lot of our thinking and I think that unfortunate. I don’t know how we get past that. But there is so much empirical data to indicate that prohibition not only is not working but has crippled our nation in many, many ways. Again, blocked or derailed by this idea of good, bad, sin and otherwise.
Dean Becker: OK. You kept…
Caller: Listen, please, keep fighting the good fight.
Dean Becker: We will. Kevin, thank you for your question. We have got about thirty seconds here for you, please, Neill, respond.
Neill Franklin: Kevin, I really liked what you said because you know, along the lines of morality, that’s a big issue for a lot of people. I, for one, being a dedicated Christian, believe that god has given us the ability and the - he has given us the opportunity to choose to make choices and he guides us in those directions of making good and bad choices for us as to what we put in and do with our bodies and I think that prohibition is taking that ability to choose away from us.
Dean Becker: Yeah.
Neill Franklin: And, I think that without prohibition, we could really focus on raising our kids to make good, well informed decisions…
Dean Becker: Excuse me, I have got to interrupt here. I remind you out there, folks, that there is no truth, justice, logic, scientific fact, medical data, in fact, no reason for this drug war to exist. We have been duped. Visit our website: endprohibition.org. Prohibido esta evilesco.
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For the Drug Truth Network, this is Dean Becker, asking you to examine our policy of drug prohibition. The Century of Lies.
This show produced at the Pacifica Studios of KPFT, Houston.